Price War-Bottlehead vs. Integrated Amps

[madbrayniak]

I did a little searching and I didnt find anything like this so I thought I would do a little bit of math for some quick reference for you all to look at.

In the following example I did three quick mock ups of a possible Bottlehead setup.

All Bottlehead systems include the top of the line kits. Mainline, BeePre, and Eros Phono stage and a couple different amps for comparison.

System 1: Bottlehead system above w/ Paramount Monoblocks and Soft Start Kit-Total Price before tax and shipping: $4871
System 2: Bottlehead system above w/ First Watt F5(build price of $1000 *estimated*)-Total Price before tax and shipping: $3923
System 3: Bottlehead system above w/ Hypex nCore NC400 monoblocks (rounded price up to $1400)-Total Price before tax and shipping: $4323

The only thing missing from these systems is a DAC which I will add later once the final price is announced.

For comparison purposes I averaged these prices together which is $4373.34.

Going to Stereophile.com and looking at their recommended components list there are very few Integrated Amps that are in this price range in their "Class A" rating column. A couple that are in this price range are the Luxman L-505u at $4100, Leben CS300 $3395, Bel Canto C7R $2995, and Ayre AX-7e $3500.

From what I can see, doing a quick search, none of these have HT-Bypass and only the Leben is a tube based integrated.

So by going with Bottlehead not only do you have a fully seperate audio system where  you can personally go in and optimize/mod the electronics for your purpose and choose an amp that best matches the impedance of your speakers but you have added flexibility for the same or lower price. The price of used Bottlehead gear can also be the same cost as it was for you to build it or possibly a bit more.

What do you lose with Bottlehead? Possible loss in resale(see above). McIntosh gear is known very well for holding it's value for resale later on which is a big selling point in my eyes. Another thing that some might consider a loss is the fact that you cant really take it to a local stereo shop and have it repaired under any type of warranty. There is also a bit less of an "Oh yea, I spent $XXXXXX on my sound system" ego boost. There is also the additional cost of tubes that will need replacing throughout the years that you wont have with Solid state gear. But keep in mind that solid state gear clips harder and in a less enjoyable way than tubes do. Enclosure is not extruded aluminum that can be dropped from a three story building.

Here is something to also consider with the Bottlehead+F5 system, the lowest priced Pass Labs integrated amp is still $7000 and you will have a high performance system with a Nelson Pass designed amp for a little more than HALF the price and you still need a phono stage.

[Paul Birkeland]

What do you lose with Bottlehead? Well that depends I think on the kind of person that you are. If you value resale value a lot then I highly doubt you will get your money back by selling your used Bottlehead gear.

It's actually quite the opposite.  I see used Bottlehead Paraglows selling for more than the MSRP.  It's also pretty common for a well built Crack to sell for a bit more than the cost of the kit.  Otherwise, it has been normal to see built kit prices roughly mirror the price of the kit itself.

On the other side, a 1-year-old integrated amp that sold new for $10,000 will certainly not sell for much more than $6,000 used.

What you're not getting with our equipment is an expensive chassis.

[madbrayniak]

Thanks Paul, I made the adjustments to the original post.

[Zimmer64]

What does it for me is that the BH kits not only sound fantastic and are good value for money, but also give you that sense of achievement by haveing built something yourself. I find it just an awesome experience, when you fire the kit up first time and everything works and sounds so good. Plus the process balances out the knowledge work (Outlook and PowerPoint ......) of the office job.

This is a great hobby and I am grateful that corporations such as BH exist to provide us with the right equipment and community support.

Michael

[butchbass]

 Bottlehead has a big wow factor  when you tell people you built your system yourself and that it is 3. 5 watts (I have the Paramours).  Friends of mine that appreciate good sound are astonished by my Bottlehead system and Orcas.

[Doc B.]

I don't get how the term price war applies to this topic.

[fullheadofnothing]

The math is pretty fuzzy here. First of all, the Paramount comes with the Soft Start. The additional kit is for people who bought Paramounts before the Soft Start circuit was instituted. You should not purchase the Soft Start in addition to the Paramount. It ends up being a wash pretty much though, because the additional $249 this adds is made negligible by the fact that you priced the Mainline at the current promotional cost of $999, not the regular price of $1199. I said that right folks, act now to get in on the sale...

The math gets way fuzzier when you start trying to compare apples to oranges. First of all, if you want to compare integrated amps, Bottlehead wipes the floor on price with either of the integrated amps in the stable, the S.E.X. at $539 or the Stereomour at $849. Furthermore, the all top of the line Bottlehead system you've designed has phono AND headphone capabilities. Only the Luxman has both (the Leben has headphone, and the Bel Canto has phono; the Ayer has neither). To compare the the prices just based on having these features, the Luxman BH equivalent would be $4822, the Leben BH equivilent would be $4073 the Bel Canto BH equivalent would be $3623, and the Ayer BH equivalent would be $2874. And this is assuming that the phono and/or headphone stages were a major focus for the designers of these amps. Fitting everything into one box requires compromises, and manufacturers aren't going to put too many resources into features that everyone won't use. Note that I haven't heard these particular pieces of gear, so this statement is speculative, but based in reality.

(edited to add: these figures are based on the $1199 pricing for the Mainline, making the OP's system cost a total of $4822. With the current sale price, the total system price would be $4622).

[madbrayniak]

I titled it "Price War" because I was thinking I would show how you can have full separates for a lower price compared to integrated amps which are still considered to be a more cost effective option compared to full on separates from other manufacturers. Feel free to change the title if you see fit, I will take no offense to it.

My math may be a little fuzzy but I was using the current prices of the top of the line stuff only. Obviously there are other systems that can be made for less by going with the Crack instead of the Mainline or the S.E.X., etc.

I didnt make this to compare apples to apples but simple as a quick reference to show that you can have full separates for less than even a nice fully integrated amp that in the end actually has more features than accepting so many compromises that come with the other devices from the luxury brands that often much more but for less of the "goods"

[Yoder]

What you're not getting with our equipment is an expensive chassis.

Nor are exorbitant marketing and advertising costs passed down to the consumer.