Newbie with a green field

[SammyJ]

Hello Folks,
So I've been looking around for some time and I'm really excited to dive into the Bottlehead world.  I'm relatively new to getting serious about hi-fi audio but have been dabbling for years.  I'm quite green with electronics, though I do plan on completing some simple kits from Adafruit to help shore up my soldering skills.  Until now, I've managed to put a mod chip into a Playstation (as a teen) and have managed to fry an XBox trying to do the same thing.  Still though, I'm a maker at heart, so I'm excited at the possibilities.

OK, so, a couple of questions.  Being that I'm quite green in both DIY electronics and I was hoping for some guidance.  Currently, I'm running a Pro-Ject RPM 1.3 with a Sumiko Pearl cartridge.  It's feeding directly into a Kenwood AR404 stereo reciever phono input, which then powers two soon-to-be Focal 706's.  I'd like to start putting together a system to replace the Kenwood at the heart of my system.  Rather than buying off the rack, I figured I'd start building.  Here's the current setup:

Sources:
Macbook Pro (eventually it'll have a proper DAC on it, but right now, it's the stock DAC on the MBP)
Pro-Ject Turntable

Output:
Focal 706 Bookshelves (rated at 90db sensitivity)
Either HD598, HD650 or a lower end pair of Grado's

I was thinking I'd start off with a Reduction and hook it into a line-in on the Kenwood.  Afterwards, I'd replace the Kenwood altogether with maybe a Stereomour?  What are your thoughts on that? 

Reduction questions:
1. Does this approach sound reasonable?
2. Does this thing output enough power to power some headphones or is that crazy talk?

A couple of Stereomour questions (didn't want to crosspost into that forum, but may if this isn't the right place):

1. How easy is it to mod to use a decent entry-mid range set of headphones?
2. Any thoughts on how it'll perform with those Focal's?
3. I should be able to MBP -> Stereomour, right?

I realize I probably sound like a complete newbie, but hey, gotta start somewhere, right?  I really really appreciate the help and advice, looking forward to your thoughts.

[Doc B.]

The crux of the matter is how loud you want to play your speakers. If you want them to be able to play at high volume you would need the Paramounts. If you listen at more average levels and want to use headphones too, the S.E.X. amp would be the best choice. The Stereomour falls somewhere in between power-wise, but the AC filaments mean it could be a little too noisy for sensitive headphones.

[Paul Birkeland]

Reduction questions:
2. Does this thing output enough power to power some headphones or is that crazy talk?

Yeah, that is crazy talk.  The Reduction is happiest driving a load that is 25,000 Ohms or higher, while most headphones are 16-600 Ohms.  This would basically have nearly all possible problems (not enough voltage, poor frequency response, high distortion, etc). 

I would recommend trying the Reduction and SEX amp.  The SEX amp won't give you ear bleeding SPL levels out of your speakers, but it may end up being enough.  It will, however, be able to deliver the goods into headphones. 

-PB

[Evan]

Just an opinion from a lurker:
I've only used a 2.0 version of the SEX amp, but I am a big fan. If your budget is relatively modest and you prefer having an "all in one" type package it is a fantastic amp. It will drive a very broad selection of headphones, and with the right speakers it makes a lot of music.

I played 91db sensitive KEF bookshelf speakers through my SEX 2.0 for some time and found it sufficiently loud for most of the listening I do. But I am very good at managing my expectations and I listen at modest volumes in a smaller space. I've since built 98db sensitive speakers using a 12" pro audio woofer and a compression driver to get more "POWER". I've also transitioned to a Stereomour/Crack combo - but not because of any deficiencies with the SEX.

I don't want to presume too much, but considering you have a Playstation/Xbox I am guessing you are relatively younger. I'm just shy of 30 and personally found the 91db sensitive speakers with the SEX or Stereomour a little quiet for those times I wanted to "feel" the music. The 98db speakers I have now will go louder than I can handle in the smallish listening space I have. But with either speaker the Stereomour makes some very nice music.

I've never hooked my MBP directly to my Stereomour, so I can't answer as to how well that will work. The input impedance of the amp is around 270k, so the headphone out might not have enough oomph. I'd try it, but I don't have a 3.5mm to RCA cable. Others here will know more about this than me.

All that aside, I absolutely love my Bottlehead amps. I think they look great, sound fantastic, and I have a personal connection to them knowing that I made every solder joint. Warming up with some Adafruit or Make projects will make the build that much easier. And the directions are excellent. I recommend looking through the gallery subsection and deciding exactly how you want your amp to look before you start building. It is much easier to do any painting before you start!

[corndog71]

I don't want to presume too much, but considering you have a Playstation/Xbox I am guessing you are relatively younger.

I have 2 xbox 360's and I'm over 40. 

[SammyJ]

Hey guys,
Thanks for the replies so far.  I'm actually just over the hill of 30.  Not much of a gamer to be honest, just liked modding/hacking things.  In terms of loudness, using a sound meter app on my iPhone, I measured around 75-80db of normal listening volume, and about 90-95db peaks at what i'd consider "loud" (using my soon to be replaced current loundspeakers). Once I've got the Focals, the setup would be in a much smaller room, so I actually think the power might be OK,but I still wish I could audition one of these before deciding to build my own.

I'm still leaning towards the Stereomour for a couple of reasons.  The Paramount pair is definitely well outside of budget.  I'd consider the SEX 2.1, but it only has one input (correct me if I'm wrong).  I'd really need at least 2 switchable ones.  I guess I could build an external switch...

Another question: I want to make my way up to a Stereomour by building the Reduction first.  Good first timer kit?  Would it make a marked improvement when connected to my SS Kenwood?  I'm guessing the answer is yes, the source will be much cleaner than if using the Kenwood's built in pre-amp, but wanted to pose this newbie-ish question anyways.

Thanks guys!

[corndog71]

Perhaps the Bottlehead amps aren't necessarily right for you if you're looking for 90-95dB listening levels. 

Bottlehead amps can work with lower efficiency speakers but only at moderate listening levels.  My Sex amp does not like to be pushed too hard with 90dB speakers.  It'll fill the room but don't expect party levels.  Now if you get more efficient speakers (97+) you should be ok with a Sex amp or Stereomour.

What might work better as a starter kit would be the Quickie preamp.  Then get the Reduction.   For headphones you can modify a second Quicke or step up to a Crack.    Then you need to decide on the power amp for your speakers.

If you do end up needing more power for your speakers then I recommend Bob Latino's Dynaco kits.

[Evan]

I'll preface this with a "non-scientific disclaimer agreement".

I hooked my 91db KEF's back up to my Stereomour. Using the Decibel 10th app on my iPad, with the speakers 8ft apart and my listening position 8ft from the speakers, and listening to AC/DC 'Shoot to Thrill' I could just get the needle to hover around 90db and there was noticeable distortion. With the volume dial at the halfway point I got an average around 80db or just under. With my 98db speakers and the control at the same position I was in the mid 80's. With these speakers turning the dial up just a small amount nets me a lot more volume without distortion. I absolutely love the Stereomour/speaker combination I've got going right now. (The speakers I am using are the DIY Sound Group Fusion 12 Tempest speakers if you were wondering). If you are near Seattle I'd be happy to let you listen. I am also green to the DIY audio world and know what it is like.

Sorry I don't have any input on the Reduction, but that would probably be an excellent way to test the Bottlehead water and see how deep you want to go.

[ffivaz]

I built the Reduction as a second kit, after the Crack. It is a no problem build, if you take the time to do it right. I have a Stereomour with a pair of homemade speakers, based on the Fostex Fe-126en (bk-12m enclosures, recommended). The efficiency is around 93-94 dB. The Stereomour can drive them loudly without distortion in a small to middle sized room.

Note that the sound level depends on your source. With my 2V outputting DAC, the system can get really loud. With my Reduction, a little less, even with the Integration upgrade. But that depends on your phono cartridge output (what model do you plan to use with the Reduction?). I'll try this evening to connect my MacBook directly to the Stereomour and tell you what I get compared to the Reduction and my DAC.

Update : The sound from the headphone jack of my macbook, full volume, is about the same as the DAC and an little more than the Red + Int.

[Grainger49]

Ok, I started out buying the Seduction (now Reduction) the day it came out.  I used it with a Krell 250WPC Class A amp and my existing speakers.

Then I bought a Foreplay 2.  It and the Seduction replaced my ARC SP-14.

But I wondered about sensitive speakers and low power SET amps.  So I bought Triangle Zerius speakers (94dBW) and then Paramours (now the Stereomour). 

There is magic in SET, DHT tubes and high sensitivity speakers. 

So, that was my journey.  Yours might follow, or not.

[SammyJ]

Well, I did it, pulled the trigger on a Reduction.  I'm incredibly excited, can't wait to get the build off the ground.

To start shoring up on my soldering skills, I completed a "MintyBoost" kit (battery powered USB charger, made to fit in an Altoids tin) over the weekend.  I also started researching how to use my Multimeter and used it on to test components and the final (albeit very simple) Mintyboost build.

Thank you everyone for the advice.  At this point, I'm thinking that if everything goes wonderfully with the Reduction, I'll go for a Stereomour and think about wiring in a headphone jack (based on input in these forums).  If I find too much interference, I'll plan on introducing a Crack and bypassing one of the inputs (since i only need two) and turning it into either a passive or switched output (again, based on research here).

Good advice about looking through the gallery, I'll be doing that, and going through the manual to familiarize myself with the process.  Doc -- anyway I can get a download of that?  I don't actually own a computer with a physical media drive anymore.

[Evan]

Sounds like a great project. I move often so a vinyl set-up is too cumbersome for me, otherwise I would build a Reduction myself. Be sure to post your own pics to the gallery when you are done. If you just take your time and stop when you get tired or frustrated the build is really enjoyable. I'm also of the opinion that a good looking build tends to be a good working build. I imagine if you email Eileen at queen @ bottlehead.com she could hook you up with the manual. She is very nice to work with.