New Paramount 300b build questions

Frank Breech · 4119

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Offline Frank Breech

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on: January 23, 2014, 06:53:13 AM
Hi All,
Firstly I just want to say thanks in advance to anyone who reads through this and can offer any advice.  Hopefully it's all simple stuff - as I'm still new to all this and really just following the instructions and keeping my fingers crossed.  So far though I've been enjoying my FPIII, Seduction & Crack.  Now with these puppies (paramounts in 300b configuration) I have a full tube system which is a dream come true, really - I've never had one of those before!  So, if any one can help me see this to fruition  - help a boy achieve a dream - it is highly appreciated.  Here goes, in order from least to most pressing (or not, you tell me):

1. The parts checklist called for 10 LEDS, which were all included, though I only used 8 in the build.  You can be sure I double- perused the instructions (including the 2A3 specific portions) before  firing up the amps but only came up with the need to use 8  (4 on each of the shunt reg active load PCboards).  Comments? Did I miss something? 

2.  When I power on the amps in my system (connected to speakers and the above mentioned BH components) in about 15-20 seconds or so, there is a quick, high pitched "zip" sound through the speakers.  This happens even before I turn any other components on (i.e. the amps are the only electronics powered up) - it's definitely coming from the Paramounts.  Is this sound normal? If not, has anyone experienced this?  If it is a problem, is there a way to get rid of it? 

3.  Both amps also make some of their own noise (from the amps themselves, not out of the speakers).  It's not loud, you have to have the room quiet and put your ear up to them, but they do sound like they're running. None of my other BH stuff makes a noise that I can distinguish while it's on. 

4.  I should mention that I haven't done the "hum balance" adjustment yet (the last step of the instructions) not sure what the deal is but maybe my meter doesn't do AC millivolts (?!) is that crazy?  I didn't get ANY reading off of speaker terminals.  Can that be indicative of a different problem.  I don't really know what the hum balance is doing - just reducing amount of noise floor coming off the speaker terminals?  There is some noise floor coming through the speakers when only the amps (no other components are on) - though it's not very much and definitely not interfering with enjoying the music.  I do plan on doing this hum balance step, I've just go to borrow my buddy's MM - should be able to this weekend (assuming there is an issue with my MM.

5. For me, the potentially most pressing issue:  One of the amps has a "hot" smell when it is turned on.  Though this smell has been lessening (I've been listening to the amps since this past Sunday), I believe, if I do listen for more than an hour, I can still really notice it around the equipment stand in the living room.  I've tried having the amp on for that length of time with no signal running through it and then compare it to starting up the cold amp and starting music after just a couple minutes, and I *think* the smell is stronger while music is playing. 
It is not a burning smell but it smells like hot plastic and kind of smells like plastic just shortly prior to when it starts burning.  I've had my nose all over the underside and cannot pinpoint it.  However, this one amp ( from here on I'll call it the stinky one) is definitely running hotter than the other one.   I tried swapping each tube, and even the positions on the rack shelf (one is over the other on my shelf and I thought maybe it was heating up too much because the one underneath it was cooking it - though the issue always stayed with the amp no matter where it was placed or which tubes were in it.  I have not measured the temp, but the difference between the two is noticeable to the touch.  I believe that the extra heat on the stinky unit can be coming from the 25w resistors.  Seems like that area of the chassis plate is the hottest and it is noticeably hotter to the touch than the  non-stinky one.  e.g.  Once they have been running for an hour or so I can put my finger on the head of a mounting screw for the 25w resistor of the non stinky one and need to take my finger away after 3 seconds.  On the stinky unit, I can only make it just to 2 seconds with my finger on the same mounting screw.  Of course,  I've also carefully checked the underside to see if anything was rubbing/touching up against anything else but to avail.  I also double checked the mica washers to make sure they were not cracked and that the 25w resistors are isolated from the chassis plate.  All advice is greatly appreciated.

I'm going to post my resistances and voltages for reference.  They were mostly just fine.  I'll post just the ones that were pushing 15% difference from the manual to make it easier to digest.  Any others are available by request, no problem:

RESISTANCES
TERMINAL #      SHOULD BE          UNIT 1     UNIT 2
9                                       124k                               148k                   148k
12                                     5.6M or INF                          6.6M                6.7M
14                                     9.2M or INF                          13.3M              13.3M
19                                       128k                                   148k               148k

VOLTAGES
TERMINAL #      SHOULD BE          UNIT 1     UNIT 2
A3                                      "close to zero"               zero                     zero   (is it bad these are not slightly higher than zero?
6v RED                                  3.1VAC                       2.8VAC                   2.8VAC
6v BLACK                               3.1VAC                       2.8VAC                   2.8VAC
KREG BSIDE                            6.3                           7.9                             8.0
OB                                          200                            180                         179

It occurs to me now that I'm not sure which of these is the stinky one, though for the voltages, since they're so close  to being the same and one doesn't smell and one does I don't think that would be helpful info.

Thanks again. 

Mike



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #1 on: January 23, 2014, 09:03:13 AM
1.  The extra LED is used in the 2A3 version.
2.  This is the hybrid shunt regulator for the driver engaging.
3.  Yes, the amps will produce a bit of white noise while running.
4.  If your meter doesn't have AC millivolts, then it's tough to do the adjustment.  You can put your ear up to the speaker that's plugged into the amp and manually adjust that control.
5.  The "stink" issue could be something that is plastic touching a hot resistor.  If the voltages are consistent between amps (which it looks to be), especially the high voltages, then the amplifier is operating properly. 

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Doc B.

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Reply #2 on: January 23, 2014, 09:15:28 AM
The smell is often just the resistor coating or some contaminant that was on the resistor body cooking in on the first few heat cycles. It will probably go away with some more play time.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline Frank Breech

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Reply #3 on: January 23, 2014, 09:25:41 AM
Guys, thanks for these votes of confidence.  Makes me feel better that while listening I am not  damaging the lifespan of the device.  I will check again for anything plastic touching anything hot, but hopefully it is just something that needs to burn off.

Any thoughts on why one may be hotter to the touch than another?  Do you see that ever within a pair that have consistent voltage readings and are running off the same circuit in a room/building?

Thanks again

Mike



Offline Frank Breech

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Reply #4 on: January 30, 2014, 01:19:13 PM
Hi all, just an update on this issue. The smell had definitely gotten a lot better. You've got to get your nose near the hot unit now in order to pick it up - previously the smell would travel up to 6-8 feet from the amp.  This unit is still running hotter to the touch than the other paramount. As before, particularly when touching the amp on the top plate near where the cathode resistors are mounted.  I've double checked that these resistors are isolated from the top plate as per the instructions.  Makes me uneasy to be running one hitter than the other.  Any suggestions from anyone?
Thanks
Mike



Offline Grainger49

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Reply #5 on: January 30, 2014, 02:43:59 PM
Frank,

Check the voltage across these resistors.  Is the voltage greater on the hotter amp?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 03:37:23 AM by Grainger49 »



Offline Frank Breech

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Reply #6 on: January 30, 2014, 03:01:38 PM
Will do. I'll have the chance tomorrow evening. I'll bee in touch. DC voltage setting on my mm?

Thanks
-Mike



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #7 on: January 30, 2014, 03:53:24 PM
Check the resistance across the resistors as well, while you're in there. (Amp unplugged!) The likeliest explanation that occurs to me is that one of the amps has a bad connection to one of its resistors so the other one takes all the load and gets extra hot.

Paul Joppa


Offline Frank Breech

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Reply #8 on: February 04, 2014, 03:05:28 PM
Guys, sorry to keep you in suspense for so long on this issue.  Last Friday I did get to measure these values. They are as follows:
Left channel (the amp that was running hot): 990 ohms across both 25w resistors. And 70.1v and 70.4v across each. These were very close in value to the right channel amp so I assumed they are fine. What I ended up doing was experimenting a bit more with the placement of the amps and I found for sure (basically) that on my crappy rack with crappy glass shelves, the amp on the bottom is heating up the amp above it. I had tried this initially, but thought for sure the heat followed the amp - I  believe that at that point I was equating the heat and the bad smell, and the smell certainly followed that one amp. I guess a big boy rack week be my next upgrade.  Thanks again as usual. Please, if anyone sees an issue with those voltages above, let me know.

Mike



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #9 on: February 04, 2014, 03:45:52 PM
That is about as consistent as it gets in terms of cathode voltages! 

Maybe a little moving lateral air will take care of the issue?

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Frank Breech

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Reply #10 on: February 04, 2014, 11:04:24 PM
Hi, yes, I've got them arranged now so that they are not directly above/below one another.  It seems to be doing the trick.
Thanks
Mike