Best sound or intellectual exercise

[RayP]

It's always interesting to meet people at the Bottleneck meets and something Roscoe said really resonated with me when we were talking about another possible amp building competition. He described our competition as primarily an intellectual exercise and on reflection I would have to agree with him. What appeals to me most about building amps is trying some new tubes, techniques etc. While I hope that the sound is passable or perhaps even good on occasions, it's not always my primary concern. I am quite happy to produce bad sound so I know not to do that again.

I was curious where the rest of you stand on the issue. 'Both' is not the answer I want to hear. Rate yourself from 1 to 10 where 1 is experimentation and 10 is best sound. I suspect I am about a 2 or 3.

Of course, there is no correct answer. Your preference is just as valid as mine.

ray

[mcandmar]

So tempting to say both.  I'm going to have to go to the middle and say 5. As much as i love building stuff and learning as i go, i equally enjoy the fruits of my labor and want to build something the best that i can to use on a regular basis.  Due to the learning process "the next one" will always be that bit better so its a never ending process.  In someways isn't that the definition of a hobby?

I guess its a bit like a builders house is never done, and a painting is never finished.  Only exception i can think of is a mechanics car, they are always a barely road legal heap of crap.

[galyons]

I build to get the best sound I can for the given investment. The investment benchmark is the cost of a commercially produced offering.   As an example, BH kits provide a sound value much higher than their commercial cost.  Then, add a few "ear", yes and often "eye" "candy" parts and the sound value to cost ratio can go even higher.

Not only do I get the satisfaction of wonderfully reproduced music, but the pride of building it myself.

That being said, I am by nature a learner.  I enjoy the intellectual facets of DIY audio, as well. But they are definitely a by product of the process to achieve good sound.

Cheers,
Geary

[Paul Birkeland]

I think it starts on the intellectual end of things, then migrates towards the best sound as the design progresses.  (If it progresses, often times it goes in the trash)

[dbishopbliss]

I'm a 1 lately.  I think I enjoy the building process more than the sound.  In an ideal world, I would get to enjoy the sound as well, but my life schedule doesn't allow me the time to do much listening at home (turn that down).  So, I listen to most music at work these days on my S.E.X amp.

On the other hand, I can build in silence and not disturb the rest of the house.  I have a guitar amp to build then I'm going to start working on the Salvage Amp.  I'm debating whether I should try to design something or just do my own layout of something classic like the Dynaco ST-35 since I have the transformers (Yeah, Jim Rebman I never did get that amp to work). 

[borism]

I am definitely on the "best sound" end of the scale.

However, my twist to the intellectual exercise aspect is related to the experience over a number of years that commercial audio products are reaching the stratosphere (an exaggeration to make the point) in terms of cost. Every time I upgraded my system the cost of components seemed to double (DACs being one exception). However, I admit that I am not taking inflation into account.

So, the challenge to myself has been that for each upgrade/improvement in sound the cost has to be less or at least remain the same compared to the component being replaced.

This logic has its' limits (can't reach zero) and it has directed me towards small manufacturers and, finally, the DYI community.

[Jim R.]

I think Geary and Boris hit the head on the nail for me as well. I was very happy with my shindo integrated and a digital front end that got a lot of accolades, and was working on putting together a vinyl system, but when I sat back and listened to it, I realized that really all I had done was buy some components and plug them together -- not very fulfilling for a guy like me so I announced to my wife that I was going to sell the whole system and build my own gear as much as possible. Well, right now that means all the amplification but not the sources. I couldn't be happier.

David, just go back to the basics on that st-35 and leave out the tricks like the ef-86 and you'll get it working, I'm sure. I think you got too many cooks involved in that one, each of whom had their own opinion on what makes the ultimate st-35.

-- Jim

[corndog71]

I'm probably about an 8.  Over the last couple of years I've gotten a much better handle on the classic push-pull amp (dynaco) circuit although I'm still learning.  So while I'm enjoying trying different layouts and parts the end goal is always sound quality.  One of these days I'm getting a scope and taking my knowledge to the next level. 

I'm debating whether I should try to design something or just do my own layout of something classic like the Dynaco ST-35 since I have the transformers. 

I highly recommend the EFB mod by Dave Gillespie for your future ST35. 

[Tubejack]

As a BSEE, it used to be design/experimentation, hopefully leading to good sound, but it was the entire journey that I wanted.  I have built literally dozens of original builds of all types, some worked, some well, others no so good.  But it was learning.  Built the original $99 foreplay and the first SEX amps (twice), then modded them to Afterglows. I have rolling racks of bins of all kinds of parts and over 600 itemized audio tubes.  Took apart tape decks to learn, before I bought a Repro.  Today, I still do DIY, but it's with a goal of the shortest path to the best sound I can build.  What changed?  I'll be 65 in less than a month.  Still good health, steady hands, wavering eyesight (but tolerable with a good eye loop), but, more listening and less building-to-learn is taking over.  I still love to build,  like the PP EL34 scratch build still on the bench, but it's after a well respected published design - not much experimentation or pencil and paper design needed, just good parts selection and layout. Same with my current Crack/Speedball, Eros, and Mainline, and looking forward to the BH DAC.  Time to enjoy what my labors have wrought ....

[roscoe primrose]

I'm probably about an 8.  I'll occasionally build something not knowing how well it'll work, but I'm not going to build something I don't believe will be good enough to play with the rest of my system...

Roscoe

[Paul Joppa]

..., but I'm not going to build something I don't believe will be good enough to play with the rest of my system...

Roscoe

That's how the quickie happened - I thought it might be interesting but not really high fidelity. You never really know until you try it!

[debk]

I have actually given this question a bit of thought.  You stated that both is not an aceptable answer but I would have to say both is my answer.  I like to experiment with the result being the best sound I can get while triyng new techiniques.  So I guess that will put me as a 5.  I enjoy the amp building competition you host because it pushes me to think outside my comfort zone. 
I particularly like your latest contest, the push-pull amp.  It really stimulated me to learn somehting about push-pull amps, a type of amo I never really gave any thought to.  Even if I don't make it out to the contest I will have learned alot.

If asked do I enjoy building/designing amps or listening more, that is an easy answer.  I like building them more than listening.  However what I build I want it to sound the best possible.

Debra