Fostex flats from madisound

[pro_crip]

Hi all, not quite a newbie here (got a modified foreplay II under the belt) with paramount 300b's on the way. I'm trying to find some speakers to go with them (along with an eros and a foreplay III). I know I need high efficiency and was wondering if anyone built either one of these: http://madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8282 or http://madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1399. And if they did, what were their impressions? Has anyone built the Fostex recommended enclosures? A friend of mine is a luthier so I'd have access to his shop and expertise for a bottle of Booker's (what a bargain). Any and all opinions will be appreciated. Thanks a bunch.

Rich
[email protected]

[glynnw]

I am using the Fostex 208E Sigma in an open bafle (as part of the Basszilla speaker) and driving them with 300B Paramounts.  Sounds fine and plays plenty loud for me.

[howardnair]

 i have built a jericho horn which is similar
and highly recommended--the basis being the fostex 208esigma--a very nice speaker-i added a ribbon tweeter. a fountek neocd2 --howie

[arveedub]

I've got a pair of BK-16's scheduled for delivery for tomorrow. I'm going to use the FE166En's. I heard the original kit (FF165K's & the tweeters) a couple years ago at a Bottlehead meet & was really taken by the sound. Bear in mind that these are not exactly strong in the low bass. There really isn't much at all. I'd guess that 60Hz is about as low as you are really going to get. Maybe lower in a good room on a good day. I'm putting together a living room system so I'm mainly concerned with the mids & can't have anything too large. You might want to add a sub, but that's cheating.

That said, I use some FE206E's in a transmission line for my serious system. I can't say enough about the drivers. They are nice & fast & strong on the low end & I think have a nice response up to the highs. Don't point them directly at your listening position, though. Listen off-axis. My plan is to go for the BK-20's if the 16's work out.

The main reason why I'm posting is to say that if you have not heard a single driver speaker, you may want to before you invest. They have a quality all their own & are quite quirky. I personally feel that a single full-range driver is the only way to go, but many disagree. If you have only heard standard 2 or 3 way bass reflex speakers, then you might want to find a local bottlehead willing to give you a listen, a club or (shudder) a dealer.

On the other hand if you are new to this whole single-ended, low power business, then you might want to take the plunge & don't look back. If you don't know SET's, then find out about them on full range horns. You could do worse for yourself.

[Paul Birkeland]

Please do look at PJ's BSC filter for single driver full-range loudspeakers.  This little modification can really bring some life to the bottom and top end of these drivers.

-PB

[johnsonad]

I owned and them.  Great mid range and imaging that a single driver can give but that's about it.  The 166's with the whizzer cones hurt my ears.  I had better results with the 165 drivers in near field.  I couldn't get any lower than 50 Hz out of them and it was way down dB.  I wasn't running tweeters with them and they rolled pretty heavily after 9 or 10k Hz (memory slipping).  Replaced them with Altec Model 19's and haven't looked back.  As a note, the cabs are not as easy to glue together as they may seems.  If you don't have plenty of extra clamps, you may want to consider having a carpenter glue them up for you. 

The experience with them has inspired me to try a higher quailty single driver full range or even a two way OB set up with active crossovers, someday....  Good luck and enjoy!

[pro_crip]

Thanks for all the responses. I've decided to go with the BK-20's with these: http://www.decware.com/newsite/DFR8.htm. Decware also has a nice looking sub http://www.decware.com/newsite/wo32.htm that I'd give a go at in the near future if the bass response isn't to my liking. As far as PJ's BSC, that'll require some research and considering I just got back from dialysis that'll happen this weekend.

[tsingle999]

I like the Decware driver a lot and by inspecting them it made me realize how to mod drivers...so next time I was able to purchase the regular ones...

[bernieclub]

Anything you can share as far as mods?....

[debk]

Thanks for all the responses. I've decided to go with the BK-20's with these: http://www.decware.com/newsite/DFR8.htm. Decware also has a nice looking sub http://www.decware.com/newsite/wo32.htm that I'd give a go at in the near future if the bass response isn't to my liking. As far as PJ's BSC, that'll require some research and considering I just got back from dialysis that'll happen this weekend.

Keep us informed on how the project is going.  I am considering building the same speakers.

Deb

[JIPPER]

after looking at too many options for fostex drivers, I went with the "singular" by Onur Ilkorur. You can read alitel about it at
http://www.yildiz.edu.tr/~ilkorur/ILKORUR/index.html   and  http://www.bd-design.nl/contents/en-us/d8_DIY_Speakers.html

I have my singulars hooked up to a stock SeX amp and I love them.  Imaging and dynamics are excellent.  But as someone else wrote, they can be quirky.  The sweet spot is small and the high end can be shrill.  But there are ways to control this.

If you are putting a 207e into a "horn" style enclosure, I would recommend the 206e instead.  I have not tried both myself but after studying the specs and reading about results, I think the 206e is a better way to go. 

But, the 206e is much more likely to need PJ's BSC as Caucasian Blackplate recommended.  But with the paramount you should have plenty of power.  I have so far only used the phase plug mod of adding a wooden plug where the dust cover once lived.
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/pp-info.html

Burn in is very real with the Fostex designs so do expect things to improve in a number of ways after the first few hundred hours.

JP

[notben]

I built the BK-16 flat pack a few months back with the FF165 drivers. I don't have a SET right now and use it with a Quickie and my Fisher SA100. I am finishing up a RH84-se for these right now (and a Foreplay and some Dynaco MKIII's -- to many fires burning, but I love it). I have also heard the BK-20 at a friends place with a SET amp using 6V6's.

I love the presentation of my BK16. I am a real stickler for well defined mid-range, especially in the 800hz to 1Khz range where lower harmonics and middle fundamentals begin to collide. And where I think the beautiful honkiness of a Les Paul lives. Maybe this is due to the quick response of the FF165, other people here more wise and experienced could probably explain that better. Now, I don't have a lot of experience with full range drivers, but I also now understand some of the criticism I have read.

Robben Ford's Cut Me To the Bone enveloped me and most of Karajan's Beethoven symphonies are astonishingly clear, vivid and powerful with exceptional dynamics.  Some of the better recorded Dead shows I have absolutely set the entire stage right in front of me. The depth of the piano on one was so convincing that for the piano to my left, the high keys were closer to me and the lower ones were further back towards the wall -- just like the piano was in the room. I have only ever heard that phenomena once before from some Magnepans driven by a Mac tube pre and a big Mac SS and playing some great Brubeck.

But I have some Vivaldi that sounded like it was coming from a stock car stereo and some Beatles and Cream that was a little shrill.

One thing that shocked me with the BK-16's was how much bass it actually had. It wasn't like a sub or a great full range, but much better than I expected. Which makes me interested in trying out the Decware 6" to compare against the Fostex. The heartbeats on Dark Side of the Moon had some nice punch and almost the tiniest bit of rumble. Most importantly, it was pleasing and I didn't want to stop listening.

I am very intrigued by the Decware 8" for a taller folded horn design for when I decide to build something with 45's, 2A3's, 50's or 300B.
Still searching for a perfect match for my Fisher SA100. I am going to build a Two PI tower next to try for that amp -- then a Four Pi

[Grainger49]

NotBen,

Good observations there.  The DSOTM on that small a speaker giving a decent heartbeat is pretty amazing!  I took the same path as you, bought sensitive speakers then the SET.  It just doesn't work the other way around. 

Since you didn't mention it, did you give the Fostex drivers a good break in?  They are not like Lowthers which take a year or so, but do need a hundred hours or so with hard driving.  It is supposed to get rid of the midrange shout, which I haven't heard but it is often reported.  Maybe I have only heard well broken in Fostex drivers like Terry Cain's Abbys at VSAC 2003.  That was awesome!

[notben]

Decent heartbeat mind you, not the full boom and rumble of a sub, but enough that I wasn't totally disappointed and was pleasantly surprised.
As far as break in is concerned, I think they have at least three hundred hours or more on them. I bought the drivers last summer and put them in some old book shelf cabs and used them with a sub to listen to while tweaking some other stuff. Then recently did the flat packs. I pounded them with quite a bit of Radiohead

[pro_crip]

My crack, eros and extended foreplay iii are here with the paramounts showing up tomorrow. The BK20's are here already and the decwares arriving in a day or two. I still need the BSC schematic. The only upgrading I'm doing at the moment is loading up on various Mullard tubes. I've got quite a bit of building ahead of me. I can't wait.