low volume when playing lps

[jshopper]

good morning fellow Vinyl lovers, I am in need of advice, I am having trouble with volume ( not enough) when listening to Vinyl, my set up is as follows = LD+ Signature Mk2 300b S.E.T tube amp, well tempered labs (classic) arm and table, Grado Reference platinum cartridge, open baffle speakers with 8 inch full range drivers and 15 inch auggies that are powered by there own plate amps, bottlehead seduction phono stage, and a tubed preamp, cds have plenty of volume but not vinyl, don't get me wrong its listenable, but full volume is just listenable, trying to figure out if the phono stage and the cartridge are a match, help me out peeps. Joseph

[Paul Birkeland]

IIRC, there is a low output and high output version of the Reference Platinum cartridge.  You'd want to be sure you had the high output version.

Next, does your Seduction have the C4S upgrade?  Also, can you take voltage measurements on the Seduction? 

When you say that full volume is just listenable, can you describe that in more detail?

What is your digital source?

The stock Seduction will take 5mV and make .3V.  Most digital sources will be 1.5-2V of output.  (A Seduction with C4S will bump up the output close to .5V)

An Eros will get you to about 1.5V of output with its extra gain.

-PB

[Grainger49]

Also, Seduction has been out of production for some time.  Is this problem new or is the Seduction new to you?

[jshopper]

after speaking with Grado, I belive I have the high output cartridge, my seduction does not have the C4S upgrade, as to voltage measurements no, but have a friend who can help me:) I can turn the volume all the way to full volume and its adequate, but if I wanted to crank it up, no luck my digital source is a modified sony C222ES
sacd player, the lower volume problem became noticeable when I changed amps from a TAD-60 push pull EL34 integrated amp to a LD+ Signature,MK2, 300b SET tube amp  I think I just answered my own question,it has to be the gain from the new amp is to low right???

[jshopper]

here are the specs on the LD+ Signature MK2 SET 300B tube amp,
Technical data:

Power output, 300B: 7-9W x 2 RMS @ 1KHZ Class A
Frequency response: 12Hz to 47KHz (-3 dB@5W) (20hz to 20k -0.5db)
THD: <1% (5W@1KHz)
Signal to noise: 90dB or better
Input sensitivity and impedance: 1.5V, 100K (310A driver is .5v)
Output impedance: 4, 8, 16 ohm
Power: 240V AC +- 10%, 50Wx2 / I can switch it to 117VAC if needed
Dimension (mm): 440(L) x 330(W) x 210(H)

Power transformer is low output impedance EI type, custom made with imported cores
SILK Output transformer with larger imported core and 'perfect lay' windings

Weight: 26Kg

[fullheadofnothing]

After some internet sleuthing, I was able to figure out that the TAD-60 will give full output at 1V. The LadyDay requires 1.5V for full output. Your cartridge puts out 5mV, with the 36dB of gain a in a stock Seduction combined with the 12dB of gain from your preamp, will put out a TOTAL of 1.25V. That, of course, is assuming that your records are mastered hot enough to actually give the full 5mV output. At any rate, you can't achieve full output on your current amp with your current preamp setup. Furthermore, full output on your old amp would be way louder than on your new amp on the same speakers, just because of the difference in power.

[jshopper]

OK, so it sounds like I need to figure out where I can get another  .25V from, correct? maybe my preamp can be modified or??

[Paul Joppa]

So tell us about the "tubed preamp". Most such have plenty of gain; I'm concluding that yours may be unusual.

Be aware that cartridges are rated differently that CD players; a phono volt is larger than a CD volt.

[jshopper]

the tubed preamp is Audio Experience symphonies+
gain is 12db S/N 98db,frequency response 10hz~200khz(-0.5dbat 5v, input sensitivity 50~100mv , line stage tubes 12AX7A (X3)  POWER SUPPLY 6x4 CHANNEL SEPARATION 56DB(2HZ~20KHZ
I used a sound meter app to see what kind of db ratings I was getting while listening to a 180gram 45rpm 12 inch lp (Anthony wilson Nonet power of nine) peaks where in the high 80s and average was in the mid to high 60s.

[Paul Birkeland]

Input sensitivity and impedance: 1.5V, 100K (310A driver is .5v)

Try putting a 310A in.