Noise, Heat, and Sparks: Oh My!

MrPotatoSalad · 13228

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Offline MrPotatoSalad

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on: September 02, 2014, 09:35:29 AM
Finished building the Crack and Speedball but had to remove the Speedball. Here are my issues:

1) There is a slight white noise with the Crack (stock). It is not loud, but enough to be easily noticed as soon as the headphones are plugged in. It does not change with the volume knob (even when all the way down). I unplugged the RCA jacks and tried wiggling the 12AU7 and still the same in both ears. Is it a cold solder, bad tube, or something else? Replacing 12AU7 tube solved the problem

2) My 5W 270 ohm transistors got really hot since I forgot the plastic sheet between the transistors and heat sink. I don't know if this made one of the resistors crack directly or if it simply made an already damaged transistor more damaged, but one of them cracked so I need a replacement. Will this work: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009PIQUDE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 . Solved

3) Finally, the Speedball originally lite up all LEDs both before and after I put the plastic sheets in. However, I was not getting any voltage readings on the first 6 terminals because I had the ground on terminal 13 instead of 12.  :P While I was voltage testing, there was a spark on terminal 7. I don't know if it shorted to terminal 6 or not, but all the LEDs went out except the bottom main board (which glowed strong), and the LED at A8 to center pin. I tested all the transistors and resistors and the only bad one I found was the bottom TIP50, which gave a low resistance from red collector to black base. The PC board did not have any shorts or disconnections so my best guess is that the transistor is shorting out the power at the bottom board not allowing the electricity to travel any farther. Any guesses as to what it is? Solved

Cheers
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 10:23:30 PM by MrPotatoSalad »



Online Paul Birkeland

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Reply #1 on: September 02, 2014, 11:44:40 AM
1) There is a slight white noise with the Crack (stock). It is not loud, but enough to be easily noticed as soon as the headphones are plugged in.
What's the nature of the noise?  Is it a rustling noise, hum, or something else?
2) My 5W 270 ohm transistors got really hot since I forgot the plastic sheet between the transistors and heat sink.
A voltage check will address any issues that cropped up from this damage. 
3) Finally, the Speedball originally lite up all LEDs both before and after I put the plastic sheets in. However, I was not getting any voltage readings on the first 6 terminals because I had the ground on terminal 13 instead of 12.  :P While I was voltage testing, there was a spark on terminal 7.
I would start over with a fresh Speedball once you know your Crack is working.  (Like we recommend)

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline MrPotatoSalad

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Reply #2 on: September 02, 2014, 12:07:04 PM
What's the nature of the noise?  Is it a rustling noise, hum, or something else?
Like this, except quieter: . Try turning the volume bar down to as low as possible on the video. it is about that loud if not a little quieter (starting from a "normal" listening level).
A voltage check will address any issues that cropped up from this damage.
The voltages are withing the 10-15% range. The problem is it is cracked ceramic, so I would like to put a new resistor in since they are dirt cheap anyways. I only want to know if the linked resistor is the right specs. It seems like it is.
I would start over with a fresh Speedball once you know your Crack is working.  (Like we recommend)
What do you mean? The Speedball is out right now. I tested the components when they where detached from the Crack. No problem with Crack except noise and resistor. The top plate gets a bit hot, ~115F, but that is expected as far as I know.



Online Paul Birkeland

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Reply #3 on: September 02, 2014, 05:58:48 PM
Yeah, it wouldn't hurt to replace the cracked resistor first, just to be sure you have solid parts upon which to form a solid opinion.

As far as the Speedball goes, putting the TIP50's in without the mounting pads generally destroys the large PC board, but you can (briefly) try it on a working Crack to see if it is still functional.

-PB

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline MrPotatoSalad

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Reply #4 on: September 02, 2014, 07:19:48 PM
Reheated all the 12AU7 terminals and no luck. I doubt the transistor will do anything. The only thing I can think of is a bad tube.
As far as the Speedball goes, putting the TIP50's in without the mounting pads generally destroys the large PC board, but you can (briefly) try it on a working Crack to see if it is still functional.
Is there any way to test if the PC beard is bad now? I don't have any shorts or disconnects so how would it be destroyed? All the lights were on without the pads. The spark is what shut the LEDs off.



Offline NightFlight

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Reply #5 on: September 03, 2014, 03:22:29 AM
Listen to CB. The two TIP50 if installed without isolators will have been cooked because the matching heatsinks are grounded. You can use split half troubleshooting which was recommended to me when my large speedball board was suspect.

You can take out the large speedball board and restore the two original 3K Cathode resistors from the original crack configuration.  This is advantageous in a couple different ways. If it isolates the issue you get to use your amp while you figure out what you want to do. You can either try replacing just the TIP50s, or the whole board. You can test the individual components easily enough with a multimeter. Just youtube search on testing transistors.  I grabbed a bunch of backup parts including 10 TIP50s from mouser and the biggest expense was shipping.

Here was my experience: http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=6368.0



Offline MrPotatoSalad

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Reply #6 on: September 03, 2014, 05:30:15 AM
I'm getting a few TIP50s by next Monday. All three boards have been removed. The Crack is stock. The white noise is from the stock Crack. No Speedball is attached in any way.

Am I able to attach the two smaller PC boards and just leave the large PC board out, keeping the 3K resistors in for now, with no problems in sound assuming the two smaller boards are fine?

I tested everything and the only problem was the lower TIP50, where the LEDs where glowing strong.

I am looking to replace the tubes as well since I cannot find a solution to the noise.



Online Paul Birkeland

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Reply #7 on: September 03, 2014, 06:33:39 AM
I'm getting a few TIP50s by next Monday.
The 2N2222's should be replaced also.
Am I able to attach the two smaller PC boards and just leave the large PC board out, keeping the 3K resistors in for now, with no problems in sound assuming the two smaller boards are fine?
Yes, but you should sort out the noise first.
I tested everything and the only problem was the lower TIP50, where the LEDs where glowing strong.
Better safe than sorry, I would also replace the 2N2222's.
I am looking to replace the tubes as well since I cannot find a solution to the noise.
Did you already replace the resistor in the power supply? 

It wouldn't hurt to get a 2nd 6080.  When you put the TIP50's on without the insulator, you basically allow the 6080 to draw all the high voltage current that the power supply can deliver until something breaks.  A 6080 is a tough tube, but that's a pretty brutal operating condition. 

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline MrPotatoSalad

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Reply #8 on: September 03, 2014, 08:50:23 AM
I'll replace the one resistor and then add the two smaller boards in to see if they work. Already placed my order for the TIP50s so unless I can find a 2N2222 on Amazon prime, I'll just wait and see if the TIP50 fixes it.

Any suggestions as to what the noise could be from? I know tubes are a bit noisier than SS, but is it supposed to be easily noticeable when the HP is plugged in?



Online Paul Birkeland

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Reply #9 on: September 03, 2014, 10:46:05 AM
You could think of the cracked 270 Ohm resistor as a wounded part that may be too injured to properly perform what would be its primary task.  (It could also be internally shorted a bit, which would bring up the noise floor)

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline MrPotatoSalad

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Reply #10 on: September 03, 2014, 11:34:20 AM
Noise did not go away with replacement. However, I have some discrepancies in voltage now. I measured before and after the resistor replacement and they both gave the same voltages:
5: 124V
9: 132V
A1: 124V
B4: 124V
B6: 132V

Also, if I put in the 2 small PC boards, should I removed the resistors at 1/2 and 4/5 first?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 11:52:34 AM by MrPotatoSalad »



Online Paul Birkeland

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Reply #11 on: September 03, 2014, 11:52:06 AM
Is only one half of your 12AU7 glowing now?

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline MrPotatoSalad

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Reply #12 on: September 03, 2014, 11:54:35 AM
No, both sides are glowing. Like I said, this was something that must have happened between the last voltage check a few days ago and today.



Online Paul Birkeland

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Reply #13 on: September 03, 2014, 12:02:25 PM
Do T4 and T5 have the same voltage?

I'm guessing one of the LED's on the 9 pin socket isn't glowing also.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline MrPotatoSalad

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Reply #14 on: September 03, 2014, 12:20:19 PM
Do T4 and T5 have the same voltage?

I'm guessing one of the LED's on the 9 pin socket isn't glowing also.

Both LEDs are lighting up. If you mean terminal 4 and 5 (the ones with U and L designations), then no. T4 is at 170V and T5 is at 128V.