My take on the Eros

johnsonad · 4679

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Offline johnsonad

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on: October 02, 2016, 06:25:17 AM
I’m a fan of the Eros.  It has a sonic signature that I’ve not been able to get with other stages.  It sounds great, is reliable and has readily accessible tubes.  Best of all it’s supported by the BH team and community.  If you are in the market for a phono stage, I highly recommend the Eros.

My Eros project is completed and burning in as I type.  This is my third in a way having a tape version and previously owning a Tube Phono before it found its way to Mexico in the hands of another BH member.  I’ve wanted to try a couple of mods and was always limited by the top plate size so for this amp I cut a 12” x 12” top plate to work with.  This allowed me to use a custom walnut base that has been an ornament since the BeePre found a new home. 

The top plate was cut using a jig saw for the square holes and a small table top drill press for the round ones.  The vent holes are a line of small round holes as I wasn’t able to get the jig saw in for a straight cut.   That drill press is one of the best investments I’ve made in this hobby, never again will I hand drill unless absolutely necessary.

With a little more room to work, the standard RCA’s were replaced with the Neutrix recessed style plugs.  I like the look of them and had them on hand.  They give the amp a cleaner look IMO.

Circuit wise the servo circuit was removed.  This does make a difference in the sound that I’ve experienced.  It was easier to build it without the servo vs. remove it later.  I moved the 47k 2w resistor up to the C4S board to clear some room around socket C (thanks PB) and replaced the 100uF lytic cathode cap with a 100uF Panasonic 500v film cap.  I’ll post more on how this worked once I get some hours on the amp.  PJ posted once that it has a potential to pick up noise and that’s what I’ll be listening for.  It will be easy put the lytic back if there is a problem.   The RIAA caps are Muticap RTX polystyrene film and foil.  More to follow as this is my first time using them.  A few resistors in the signal path were also upgraded as was suggested by PB in previous posts.   The 0.1uF cap in the shunt reg circuit was upgraded to a Solen film and foil for no other reason than to try this new cap.  The output cap was upgraded to a Solen Teflon film and foil 0.47uF again to try them out as compared to the V-Caps as they are considerably cheaper. 

The EF86 was originally replaced with the 6BR7.  I used this originally in my first Eros and enjoyed it before swapping it to EF86.  In my sonic memory I didn’t notice a difference between them and the Tele EF86’s.  I have quite a few on hand and am able to find quiet pairs for use.  Grainger posted a thread with all of the varients that you can use for the EF86.  The 6BR7 works for me, they are cheap and I’ve got them at home.  My problem came into testing it without the servo circuit.  After searching the archives, I found my posts from five years ago where I had the same problem.  In short, my 20 examples of the tube are not able to meet the minimum voltages required with the servo removed.  If you are intending the keep the servo circuit in your Eros, I highly recommend this tube.  After swapping the pin outs back to the EF86 there were three pairs in my stash that met voltage requirements. 

The height of the standoff’s around the RIAA were increased by ½”. This allows more room to work and makes it easier to test.  You will notice a couple of standoffs to the right of the PS transformer.  These are for a choke to replace the 270 Ohm PS resistor.  This is a questionable mod but once it is burned in and I spend a few months with it to get a sonic signature, I’ll make the mod and see if there is any audible improvement.  If not, It’s an easy swap back.  I’ve got a Hammond 159M standing by.  It’s a 15H choke and pretty large. 

There is two layers of Dynamat Extreme on the exposed areas of the top plate.  This adds some mass and helps to deaden the top plate ring when you tap on it.  Not sure if this helps but it gives me peace of mind.  The stock tube shields were replaced with IERC coolers in the hope that I’ll get a few more hours out of the tubes and they look better with this build.  The 12BH7 is the stock tube that BH sent with the kit and the 6922 is a Amperex Holland 6DJ8 that tests stronger in the circuit than any of my 7308’s or 6922’s.   The Amperex tubes are my favorite flavor.  Just a hint of sweetness and wonderful tone.

The EF86’s are Tele grey plates.  One is an EF806S and the other an EF86.  Don’t get too wrapped up on the 806S.  I’ve had a few of them and they can get noisy too.  Some on the forums say that a lot of the grey plates out there are the 806S rejects.    I can see no difference in build structure and you can’t tell how quiet it is until you put it in the circuit.  The other two pair of tubes that met spec were a pair of Tele silver shields and a pair of GEC CV4086’s.  I hear no difference between silver and grey shield tele’s nor between grey plate Tele’s and the Tele 806S.  The GEC’s do sound different and equally great with the Amperex tube.

Overall this was a challenging build and I’m thankful to have had a half dozen kits under my belt before starting it.  I do share another builders’ criticism with the manual, it is in need of an update.  All in all though it was fun and I’m happy to have an Eros back in my vinyl system.  More to follow as it burns in and I get some hours of listening on it. 

Aaron Johnson


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #1 on: October 02, 2016, 06:26:21 AM
A couple more pics of the underside.

Aaron Johnson


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #2 on: October 02, 2016, 06:34:36 AM
Here are a couple of the base plate as I built it.  I simply traced the stock Eros top plate onto aluminum and used it as a template.  The paint is automotive black wrinkle. 

Aaron Johnson


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #3 on: October 02, 2016, 06:51:22 AM
I'm glad she's up and running, and that you didn't try to cut the rectangular hole for the stock power switch by hand!

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #4 on: October 02, 2016, 07:10:18 AM
Serious PB!  That little square hole was never going to happen.  The power entry module was hard enough.  I prefer a nice toggle switch anyway :)


Aaron Johnson


Offline ALL212

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Reply #5 on: October 02, 2016, 07:18:43 AM
SWEET!!!   8)

I contemplated having a bigger plate but turned chicken.  The stuff I put in ...has less than 1/4" clearance.  It was a little too close but it went in.

Love the paint job!

Aaron Luebke


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #6 on: October 02, 2016, 07:25:20 AM
Thanks Aaron.  All of my tube gear has a black wrinkle finish.  Most is powder coated but a couple are rattle can jobs including this one.  It give that 30s vintage HAM gear look and with the wood bases makes me happy.

Aaron Johnson


Offline JamieMcC

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Reply #7 on: October 02, 2016, 09:30:45 AM
Super idea to go with the bigger top plate, being roughly half way through my Eros build and having a bunch of big film caps left over from cap rolling experiments in the Crack I can definitely see a few advantages of doing so.

All those little bits of info on the tubes etc are great and I am looking forward to hearing your impressions on the different caps you have used.
 
I’m really enjoying my Eros build and hopefully another couple of evenings work will see mine completed fingers crossed. I was looking forward to spending a few hours on it this afternoon but frustratingly my plans had to be changed last minute.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 09:33:56 AM by JamieMcC »

Shoot for the moon if you miss you will still be amongst the stars!


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #8 on: October 02, 2016, 10:04:26 AM
Take your time and do it right as you well know.  This build took a few weeks with a few hours here and there and it will burn in for at least 10 days before I listen to it.  I recently recapped my SEX amp with the Solen Teflon's and Solen film and foils and the Eros is feeding directly into the SEX burning them both in at the same time. 

It's probably a combo effect but this Eros build runs much cooler than my other Eros secondary to the elevated base and Dynamat Extreme insulating the top plate.

Aaron Johnson


Offline BNAL

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Reply #9 on: October 02, 2016, 10:05:20 AM
Aaron,

Your Eros looks great. Can't wait to get your impressions on the caps.

I'm continuing on with using the 6BR7s so I'm leaving the servo in the circuit in. That is the only change this I made. I'm using all the kit parts for everything else. I think I will get it completed today.

Brad Nalitt
Iron Upgraded S.E.X. Amp 2.0
Foreplay III
Quickie w/PJCCS
Eros Phono
Blumenstein Orca Speakers, Baby Benthic Subs
S.E.X.y Speakers W/FT17H Horn Tweeters
Thorens TD 125 MkII W/ Shure M97xE JICO SAS Stylus


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #10 on: October 02, 2016, 10:20:27 AM
Nice push on finishing it Brad!  Too bad we are not living close to one another at the moment.  It would be fun to compare the sound.

Aaron Johnson


Offline BNAL

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Reply #11 on: October 02, 2016, 11:22:55 AM
I forgot to mention that I like the way you installed the LEDs upside down, so you can see the silver stripe. I'm usually triple and quadrupole checking the orientation when installing them.

Yes it would be great. Maybe you will get stationed back at Balboa.

Brad Nalitt
Iron Upgraded S.E.X. Amp 2.0
Foreplay III
Quickie w/PJCCS
Eros Phono
Blumenstein Orca Speakers, Baby Benthic Subs
S.E.X.y Speakers W/FT17H Horn Tweeters
Thorens TD 125 MkII W/ Shure M97xE JICO SAS Stylus


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #12 on: October 02, 2016, 12:40:07 PM
Rio and I were just talking about moving back on the way home from the commissary today.

Other kits have you install them upside down and it makes double checking much easier for sure.

Aaron Johnson


Offline BNAL

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Reply #13 on: October 02, 2016, 01:11:14 PM
That would be great if you moved back.

I'm going to use the upside down LED in my future kits.

Brad Nalitt
Iron Upgraded S.E.X. Amp 2.0
Foreplay III
Quickie w/PJCCS
Eros Phono
Blumenstein Orca Speakers, Baby Benthic Subs
S.E.X.y Speakers W/FT17H Horn Tweeters
Thorens TD 125 MkII W/ Shure M97xE JICO SAS Stylus


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #14 on: October 10, 2016, 06:21:08 AM
I wanted to preserve some notes and observations on removing the servo circuit.  This information was taken from previous threads and emails with PB.  The most detailed thread to review is "Self bias circuit removal risks and rewards".

When the servo circuit is removed, voltages are critical.  The locations to measure on the C4S board  are:
-EF 86 plate      OB
-EF 86 cathode  kreg pos
-6922 plate       OA
-6922 cathode   breg

The 6922 plate to cathode should be 60-80v with a nominal of 70v.  This measurement is OA minus breg.

The 6922 cathode should be at least 1v higher than the EF86 plate. breg (1v)>OB

I've measured a lot of tubes in the circuit with this build and some of my measurements and observations differ from PJ's.  PJ states that the 6DJ8 doesn't work well with the servo circuit removed.  With my tube stash of 6DJ8's, 6922's and 7308's, the 6DJ8 consistently measured better in the circuit vs. the other two tubes.  These are all NOS European brands and mostly 50's and 60's stock (Amperex, Mullard, Telefunken).  If you have tubes already, test them and see if they give you similar results.

The most interesting thing I found was that the EF86 makes the largest difference in how measurements will turn out.  The EF86 needs to be very strong to work with the servo removed.  The stronger the EF86, the more leeway you have with the 6922.  In my case, the best sounding pair one is stronger than the other and can absorb more difference in 6922 variance.   


Aaron Johnson