Bottlehead Forum
Bottlehead Kits => Crack => Topic started by: TheCoolDoc on January 22, 2015, 08:19:05 AM
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Thanks for the replacement tube Bottlehead. Everything is working well now.
I just had a few questions:
1. Should I be worried that there is no smoke, however, a smoky smell? Maybe it's just the smell of hot electronics since I passed the resistance and voltage tests with flying colors.
2. The replacement 6080 tube isn't "straight" what I mean is that the two towers inside are pointing to the left instead straight down towards the other tube (12AU7). I'll provide a pic, but everything is working and even music is playing. I made sure the pins were aligned correctly underneath the tube. It's just not symmetrical/
I'm about to install the speedball now and I have a feeling I'll face trouble in the process so I'll come back.
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I would suggest just enjoying the music for a while. I happen to love that "old electronics heating up" smell myself. Brings back a lot of fond memories of all the stuff I've played with over the years.
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I would suggest just enjoying the music for a while. I happen to love that "old electronics heating up" smell myself. Brings back a lot of fond memories of all the stuff I've played with over the years.
I went ahead and bit the bullet Doc. Before I proceed with the voltage tests I just need someone's word.
The tubes are lighting up properly except 2 LEDs on the PCB are giving problems. One is very dim and another isn't lit at all.
Pics below because I can't name the LEDs properly. The first two pics depict the ones with the issues. The other two pics are completely fine, but there for reference.
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The LED on the large PCB board is definitely broken. It got separated from the wire itself and I can't fix that. The one on the "B" board, however, isn't working even after resoldering it.
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Post voltages.
-PB
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OK firstly I get to plug a new spare LED pack we sell:
http://bottlehead.com/product/hlmp-6000-leds/ (http://bottlehead.com/product/hlmp-6000-leds/)
This should be helpful to those who have trouble sourcing the HLMP-6000s when they need a replacement.
Secondly, on the side that has the unlit, unbroken LED, check the solder joints on the MJE350 and 2N2907 transistors.
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I had to remove the right LED on the large main board. I tried resoldering what you asked Doc, but still no light on the "B" board left LED.
Since I've removed the LED, it's brother is much brighter as should be expected.
Is there no way to check voltages or even hear music without an LED? I thought all LEDs did were help troubleshoot. Since the LED itself was destroyed, I assume most things should be connected properly?
Also, PB said to post voltages, which I still haven't tested, but should I?
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I thought all LEDs did were help troubleshoot.
No, they are an integral part of the constant current source. If you left one out and applied power to the board, the board is not going to work. It's hard to say with great certainty, but you may end up needing to replace that entire board at this point.
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No, they are an integral part of the constant current source. If you left one out and applied power to the board, the board is not going to work. It's hard to say with great certainty, but you may end up needing to replace that entire board at this point.
I only applied power for 2 seconds. I've placed an order for the LEDs. The LED was broken regardless if I removed it or not, so the connection was broken in the previous test attempts.
How can I test the boards themselves? At this point I'm considering returning to stock and calling it a day as the speedball is tedious.
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Replace the LED and run the board, that will be the most solid test.
-PB
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Replace the LED and run the board, that will be the most solid test.
-PB
I've replaced both LEDs, however, the one at the B board still doesn't light up. One is brighter than the rest on the main board. Pic below.
Should I run the voltage tests? I've turned the amp off. For clarification, all except left B are lit. Farthest left on big board is brighter than all.
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Yes, the voltage tests will now be valid with all the parts having been installed in the amplifier.
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Yes, the voltage tests will now be valid with all the parts having been installed in the amplifier.
Alright thanks. Here goes. FYI, LED is still not on after resoldering some stuff.
I'll be back.
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Yes, the voltage tests will now be valid with all the parts having been installed in the amplifier.
Failure already. Got a huge spark at terminal 2. Terminal 1 gave me 125-130 V.
What to do? I've unplugged it.
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Just noticed that the right LED on the left side of the main PCB takes a few seconds to light up and when this happens, its immediate left neighbor (which was immediately lit up) becomes brighter than the others. Takes maybe 5 seconds. All other ones turn on immediately.
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You should proceed with the voltage checks. If you are having trouble not shorting out neighboring terminals, wrap some tape around all but the tip of your red meter probe's metal end.
-PB
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You should proceed with the voltage checks. If you are having trouble not shorting out neighboring terminals, wrap some tape around all but the tip of your red meter probe's metal end.
-PB
Terminal - Expected - Actual
1 - 75/90 - 0
2 - 170 - 126
3 - 0 - 0
4 - 170 - 130
5 - 75/90 - 0
6 - 0 - 0
7 - 100 - 45
8 - 0 - 0
9 - 100 - 25
10 - 0 - 0
11 - 0 - 0
12 - 0 - 0
13 - 170 - 125/130
14 - 0 - 0
15 - 185 - 165/170
20 - 0 - 0
21 - 206 - 203
Did the short circuit do something to terminals 1 and 5?
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Unplug the 6080, then try again.
-PB
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Unplug the 6080, then try again.
-PB
Terminal - Expected - Actual
1 - 75/90 - 0
2 - 170 - 235/240
3 - 0 - 0
4 - 170 - 235/240
5 - 75/90 - 0
6 - 0 - 0
7 - 100 - 2/3
8 - 0 - 0
9 - 100 - 2/3
10 - 0 - 0
11 - 0 - 0
12 - 0 - 0
13 - 170 - 235/240
14 - 0 - 0
15 - 185 - 235/240
20 - 0 - 0
21 - 206 - 235/240
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I would suspect that the center leg of each MJE-350 isn't adequately soldered.
It's tough to debug a situation like this, as you had your Crack operational for about a day before installing the Speedball, so there could be some underlying issue that has nothing to do with the Speedball itself.
-PB
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I would suspect that the center leg of each MJE-350 isn't adequately soldered.
It's tough to debug a situation like this, as you had your Crack operational for about a day before installing the Speedball, so there could be some underlying issue that has nothing to do with the Speedball itself.
-PB
The crack has been operational for about 6 days now. It hasn't caused any problems during that time and the resistance/voltage readings were flawless for it. I really think the upgrade has the issue.
I'll try resoldering the MJE-350s.
Why would one LED be brighter and one on the B board not work at all?
Is there anything else I can try if it doesn't work? I'll post better pictures so that maybe a second set of eyes can tell.
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I would suspect that the center leg of each MJE-350 isn't adequately soldered.
It's tough to debug a situation like this, as you had your Crack operational for about a day before installing the Speedball, so there could be some underlying issue that has nothing to do with the Speedball itself.
-PB
Now the problem has shifted a little. The two LEDs on the A board a brighter than the rest and now two LEDs don't light up anymore. I didn't even touch the LEDs with the soldering iron and one was lighting before.
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Your A side MJE350 is definitely backwards. B side is unclear. The soldering on both is quite blobby (not heated long enough), and the A side R1 appears to not be soldered on one side.
Also it is hard to tell which small transistor is which from the photographs, but it appears in 1113 that the forward small transistor on the big board is a 2N2907, where it should be a 2N2222.
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Your A side MJE350 is definitely backwards. B side is unclear. The soldering on both is quite blobby (not heated long enough), and the A side R1 appears to not be soldered on one side.
Also it is hard to tell which small transistor is which from the photographs, but it appears in 1113 that the forward small transistor on the big board is a 2N2907, where it should be a 2N2222.
I replaced the transistors and now the lights on the big board work fine. All are equally lit. However when I repositioned the MJE350 on both boards the lights are not working. Big board is still fine but small boards are not
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I put the MJE-350s back to the way they were again and now the right light of each A, B board is on but not the left. This is without the 6080 tube inside btw. The 12AU7 is inside.
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If the text on the MJE350 is facing towards the volume control, it will not work. Your photographs are unclear about orientation, but if it is how you describe, then it is incorrect and will not work.
It also appears that you have the 31.6Ω resistors on the small boards. Again this will cause major problems. You need to carefully go through your manual and confirm that all transistors and resistors are in their correct locations and correct orientation.
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If the text on the MJE350 is facing towards the volume control, it will not work. Your photographs are unclear about orientation, but if it is how you describe, then it is incorrect and will not work.
It also appears that you have the 31.6Ω resistors on the small boards. Again this will cause major problems. You need to carefully go through your manual and confirm that all transistors and resistors are in their correct locations and correct orientation.
Will do so. Sorry for sounding like I don't appreciate all the help, however, I truly think my kit had bundled the wrong transistors in the wrong baggies. I hadn't even opened the small boards' parts before I finished the large board or vice versa...which is why I probably assumed the two transistors that look so similar must be the same since they are in the same bag. Careless mistake that me or the kit preparers could have made.
Anyway I digress and will make sure all looks in accordance with the manual.
In your past experience, are these a common problem to LEDs not lighting up?
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Will do so. Sorry for sounding like I don't appreciate all the help, however, I truly think my kit had bundled the wrong transistors in the wrong baggies.
The Speedball transistors and diodes are all packed in the same bag.
In your past experience, are these a common problem to LEDs not lighting up?
See the bright red bold text at the bottom of page 12, when this instruction is followed properly, transistors are not swapped.
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The Speedball transistors and diodes are all packed in the same bag.
See the bright red bold text at the bottom of page 12, when this instruction is followed properly, transistors are not swapped.
The transistors are in the correct positions now. The MJE-350 is supposed to be facing the other way, but no LED lights up when I do this. If they are facing the way they are currently the right LEDs on the small boards light up. The resistors seem fine as well.
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Could you post another photo of the components on the PC boards? There is only one way that the transistors can be oriented for the amp to play music, so let's make sure they are in the way they should be, and then we can move on to the next step.
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Could you post another photo of the components on the PC boards? There is only one way that the transistors can be oriented for the amp to play music, so let's make sure they are in the way they should be, and then we can move on to the next step.
I switched the resistors as one was incorrect I think. (They look so similar but I got them down). Now both small boards are lighting up (switched MJE-350s) as well, however the main board isn't lighting up anything. The nine pin socket's LEDs are much brighter than the small boards above it. Is this something to consider? Pics below. I DON'T have the 6080 plugged in btw. Is that it?
Hahah this is so fun and sad at the same time. Being a teen this fascinates me.
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Edit: plugged in 6080 and everything lights up. Doing voltage tests now. Happy! ;D
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We still can't see whether the MJE 350's are oriented properly. A photo showing the faces of the MJE350's would suffice.
What are your voltages at T1 and T5?
You can measure the R1 resistors when they are in the board (amp off).
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We still can't see whether the MJE 350's are oriented properly. A photo showing the faces of the MJE350's would suffice.
What are your voltages at T1 and T5?
You can measure the R1 resistors when they are in the board (amp off).
Passed all voltages with excellence. Testing the headphone jack now. Do you recommend I do the headphone jack grounding mod that is sticked right now as well? Is it mandatory?
Since you asked. T1 and T5 are both around 80
The photos I take of the MJE-350 don't show much, but the text is away from the volume knob if that helps. It all looks good to me.
EDIT: Headphone TRS jack jumped to 13 then went to 0. It's not 9, but I think the speedball is supposed to raise that voltage. It's safe to test, correct?
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Go ahead and have a listen.
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Perfection.
THANK YOU so much to everyone that helped. Means a lot to someone who isn't even remotely as experienced. I'm going to make sure all the solder joints are strong because not everything in the music is exactly "clear" currently. It's subtle, but it's most likely from weak joints after all the speedball threads I've read on here.
I learned a lot from this journey.
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Hahah this is so fun and sad at the same time. Being a teen this fascinates me.
Well most of us old farts will roll our eyes (having been teens ourselves long ago) but as you've seen, we'll pitch in and help you get going. Congrats on getting it working!