USB DAC

[Natural Sound]

Hi Guys, I'm looking for an inexpensive USB DAC to use with my laptop to feed my bottlehead gear. Basically I want something better than the sound chip thats on the motherboard. My budget for this item is $250 or less. A kit is fine or a pre-built pc board without a case is fine too. I see that there are a few from China on eBay but I doubt they are any good. All recommendations are appreciated.

[mingles]

HRT Music Streamer fits your description. Check out the 6 Moons review:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/streamer/streamer+.html

HRT website: http://www.highresolutiontechnologies.com/

[ssssly]

I'm using an HLLY Matrix Mini. Can get them on ebay or from the manufacturer for about $3-350. Has a built in headphone amp (listenable but not great). The DAC itself sounds quite nice. I am happy with it, at least until the BH kit comes out.

[HF9]

I use this little guy with a netbook.

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F41gV8rSqcvL._AA300_.jpg&hash=dd466af64697b078fe14d6e976cd81d8ffc7f03c)
http://www.amazon.com/NuForce-Icon-uDAC-2-Black-Headphone/dp/B003Y5FRNS/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_1/175-4385613-5896821

It works well and is great on the go if you use headphones.



If you'd like to build something, check out the GrubDAC over at Beezar. The kit would only run you $50. There's a ton of good documentation on it from HeadFi user TomB.

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diyforums.org%2FGrubDAC%2Foverview%2FGrubDAC3-800x600.jpg&hash=5125bf737f52f986a95d26f1c19a38c194b62928)
http://www.beezar.com/oscommerce2/catalog/index.php

[Lee Hankins]

There are good quality USB DAC's on ebay, usually $125 or less.

[kgoss]

I'm using Foobar to send FLAC via the USB port to a Musical Fidelity V-DAC ($299) and it sounds great in my opinion.  I have no doubt that the BH DAC will sound better, but the V-DAC keeps the music going while I'm patiently waiting.

[dstrimbu]

Hey Ken,

I "upgraded" to Foobar v1.1.2 Beta 3 last night, and installed the WASAPI output support v2.1 (running Win 7 Enterprise x64).  The sound is noticeably better than my old config - the Foobar ASIO_out driver (with ASIO4ALL running on the OS side)...

Just an idea, not sure which OS you're using.

Cheers,

-don

[Doc B.]

I "upgraded" to Foobar v1.1.2 Beta 3 last night, and installed the WASAPI output support v2.1 (running Win 7 Enterprise x64).  The sound is noticeably better than my old config - the Foobar ASIO_out driver (with ASIO4ALL running on the OS side)...

That's good to hear. I was using Foobar 2000 with the Foobar ASIO driver and I found that Reaper with the ASIO driver, though too balky to be a useful server software, sounded a whole lot better. Sounds like Foobar has come up a notch.

[dstrimbu]

Yeah Doc, the UI looks an order of magnitude better, and the sound (with the WASAPI driver) is pretty amazing.  Good stuff!

-don

[sten]

Hey Ken,

I "upgraded" to Foobar v1.1.2 Beta 3 last night, and installed the WASAPI output support v2.1 (running Win 7 Enterprise x64).  The sound is noticeably better than my old config - the Foobar ASIO_out driver (with ASIO4ALL running on the OS side)...

Just an idea, not sure which OS you're using.

Cheers,

-don

Thanks so much for mentioning this.  I just upgraded foobar, added the WASAPI module and am now digging the much improved sound.  Honestly didn't expect to hear much (if any) difference, but this is a marked improvement.

Cheers,
S

[Jim R.]

Naturalsound,

I second the HRT MusicStreamer II -- very good for $149.  Also, if you prefer a NOS sound, the valab dac sold on ebay is a really great dac for the price.

Doc and Don,  The asio4all driver is by far the worst sounding of the asio drivers out there.  I've done extensive listening tests with it vs the usb-dacs asio driver, and the AQVox asio driver.  Both of these cost money, but are priced in Euros so not sure what they currently are, but some prefer the usb-dacs and some the AQVox, which is the more expensive of the two.  The AQVox is the only one that communiicates directly with the usb chip and will install in foobar with the kernel streaming plug-in.  So you get kernel streaming talking directly to the usb chip.  It's a rather ruthlessly revealing pairing and for some it's too much, but with good amps and dac, it can be about as good as windows based streaming gets.  There is a demo of AQVox, which you should try first to make sure it supports your mobo and dac receiver chip.

I'm sure if you try either of these and then go back to asio4all, you'll see what I'm talking about.  At least in my setup there was no contest and asio4all sounded very dull and muffled.  My buddy tried the wasapi thing with foobar but said KS was better.

Just some other things to try...

-- Jim

[dstrimbu]

Hey Jim,

Hope you're feeling better.  Agreed that ASIO4ALL is pretty bad... I tried the AQVox demo driver, but it was not happy in my HP Z400 (dual W3505 Xeons, 8Gb DDR3 RAM). The best fall-back position for me was to go to WASAPI with Foobar 1.1.2 b3, since I'm running Windows 7 Enterprise x64.  With WASAPI, there is no intermediate (OS level) driver, it's just Foobar plus the WASAPI output support dll installed in Foobar's component screen.  Not sure if WASAPI allows hardware-level access to the USB transceiver - probably not, as there's an API in the way.  But it sounds markedly better than Foobar thru ASIO4ALL!

By the way, I know that there is a lot of concern regarding Windows threading and streaming audio continuity/quality; I've recently rebuilt the HP under the guidance of a friend with MCSE credentials, and it's logging less than 130 microsecond DPC latency, with an absolute maximum of 162 microseconds.  Sounds pretty good, but still not as good as the Musical Fidelity A308CD... but then, I have a USB-powered DAC from Pro-ject, and I know that the internal DAC in the A308 is better than that...  I need to investigate a Valab NOS DAC from eBay to tide me over for a while...  <g>

Jim, I haven't done a lot of reading on the Windows Audio Session API, but I'll do some checking and let you know more about how it works.  Right now, I'm listening to the Crack on my HD-600s, fed directly from the A308CD.  I'm actually pretty impressed, the more I listen.  I've installed a NOS Sylvania 6AS7G, which I got for a song on eBay.  Now, I realize how low the noise floor of the Crack can be - my stock 6080 had a very low level hum in the right channel.

Probably more importantly, I replaced the ElectroHarmonix 12AU7 with a Amperex Holland Bugle Boy, also NOS.  That guy cost a bit more, but he's definitely more "elegant" than the EH, which had nearly 100 hours on it when replaced.  On the recommendation of Mr. Lee Hankins, I bought a couple of 12BH7s on eBay for less than $15; they are in transit.  I will advise when I get them swapped in and get a couple of hours on them...

This is so much fun, Jim.  I'm thinking I need to build another Crack, with a Speedball, just to open up my tube rolling options.  :-)

More to come on WASAPI when I clear this week's logjam at the work house.

Cheers,

Don

[Yoder]

Hi Guys, I'm looking for an inexpensive USB DAC to use with my laptop to feed my bottlehead gear. Basically I want something better than the sound chip thats on the motherboard. My budget for this item is $250 or less. A kit is fine or a pre-built pc board without a case is fine too. I see that there are a few from China on eBay but I doubt they are any good. All recommendations are appreciated.

For the money I think that E-Mu makes some decent DAC's. I was using an 1820M for years and then abandoned the Window scene for the Mac OS, and sold it. I do use a 0404 USB that is pretty decent, but how do you connect it to your Bottlehead gear? You can use a Cardas adapter and come out of the monitor jacks in the back http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=oem&pagestring2=Adapters&pagestring=Adapters+%28closeup%29&content_id=8&part_id=187. Total cost should be right around $250.

One note about the 0404, it will not run on Mac OS X running in 64-bit mode. I contacted Creative about this and they said that it was because the audio driver is developed out of house--guess you can't make requests to your vendors, but got to take what they give you.

[Jim R.]

Yoder,

For your budget and for the simplest, most direct setup I'd recommend either the HRT MusicStreamer II (for a high-res dac) or the Valab dac from China (for a NOS dac).  Both are excellent and perform well above their price points and the valab can also use toslink and spdif.  The HRT is very small and compact, requires no external power supply -- just plug the usb into one end and your RCAs into the other, and you're done.  Give it a couple hundred hours (for either dac) and they will settle down and sound excellent.  Of course to get the most out of each of them your playback software should be carefully configured, and they both benefit from a better usb cable -- the Wireworld UltraViolet is a very nice cable at a good price, and the StarLight is slightly more expensive, but also noticably better especially in the bass and top end.

HTH,

Jim

[Yoder]

Hey Jim, actually I am bitting at the bit (no pun intended) for the Bottlehead DAC to arrive. Currently I have a couple of computer "DAC's" that double as recording interfaces. The 0404 is doing time at a Mac Mini I just got a couple of months ago, and I pipe everything from my iMac through an Apogee Duet. The later uses firewire, which is nice since I can daisy-chain it with my FW800 Glyph hard drives.

I tell you though, this waiting is painful. I may go ahead and build another Crack for my daughter, and maybe a third for my wife. I am providing each with their own little sound station. My college attending daughter has a simple MacBook Pro set-up, and the wife has the Mac Mini with the 0404 right now. As an aside, anyone in the house has access to an Airport Extreme that is playing the role of music server and dishing out 325 Gb of AIFF files throughout the house. I am impressed with the AE, since I have had 4 users stream from the AE simultaneously throughout our 3400 sq ft house without any hiccups or bottlenecks.