Any plans to bring back the crack-a-two-a?

phatfish · 34839

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Offline phatfish

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on: September 28, 2024, 04:08:54 PM
Or a similar souped up OTL headphone amp?



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #1 on: September 29, 2024, 11:22:05 AM
I think that when we put out the Crack-a-two-a, people thought a "souped up OTL headphone amp" was a Crack with a choke in the power supply and some 100uF film caps at the output.  The performance improvements offered by the C2A are difficult to properly explain to someone who is hyper focused on what $50 in replacement parts can do, and really on that basis the kit wasn't all that popular. 

There are lots of other ways one could go in terms of making OTL headphone amps, but whatever we would do would compete with the Crack itself, so doing a $1000+ OTL kit may end up being an exercise in futility!

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Doc B.

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Reply #2 on: September 29, 2024, 04:44:09 PM
To add to what PB says here - we retired it simply because we didn't sell nearly as many as we did Crack kits. Interestingly most of the components that go into the kit are still on our shelves. We even have a few chassis panels, IIRC. If there were, say, three people who would commit we might be able to get the parts we don't have in stock and do a small run of Crackatwoas. I can look into this in the coming week.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline caffeinator

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Reply #3 on: September 30, 2024, 12:38:57 PM
I think I'd be in for a Crackatwoa.



Offline phatfish

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Reply #4 on: September 30, 2024, 04:04:40 PM
I appreciate the response and explanations!  Add me to the list of those who would purchase a kit.  8)



Offline currly30

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Reply #5 on: October 18, 2024, 01:49:31 PM
I might be interested in buying the amp. Though, I already own the Mainline. So, I'm not sure it would be worth it. Unless there is a difference in performance with higher resistance headphones between the amps. How much would the Crackatowa cost?



Offline Happy Ghost

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Reply #6 on: October 18, 2024, 03:43:28 PM
Though, I already own the Mainline. So, I'm not sure it would be worth it.

I own both the C2A and the Mainline. Unlike the Mainline the C2A works only with high impedance phones.. but  it offers much more of a "boogie woogie" factor compared to the Mainline(no other words to better explain it) :) On the downside it does not have as much resolution as Mainline (though it is not far behind either).. I still prefer the C2A to the Mainline when it comes to high impedance cans... The stepped attenuator, premium tubes, o/p caps upgrade will bring the cost close to a stock Mainline.. but you would not have any regrets I feel.. At least I don't :)

Hope my post adds more confusion and desire to your audiophile journey :)

Atul


Offline Thermioniclife

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Reply #7 on: October 18, 2024, 04:04:32 PM
I have a a C2A and a Mainline I enjoy them both. They each have there own flavor. Will be building a vertical rack to stack them up. I built a switch  box to send the output of my dac to either the mainline and  the SM2. Will modify to select Mainline, C2A  and SM2 for speaker use. In my opinion the C2A is a nice head amp but the Mainline is my usual go to. If you can get ahold of a C2A I think you will not regret it.

Lee R.


Offline Happy Ghost

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Reply #8 on: October 18, 2024, 04:27:53 PM
I built a switch  box to send the output of my dac to either the mainline and  the SM2. Will modify to select Mainline, C2A  and SM2 for speaker use. I

Hey Lee.. How're you.. Can you send me some details of the switch box you built? Currently I use a Schiit Sys right now for switching between amps..  What is this SM2 that you were referring to?

Atul


Offline phatfish

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Reply #9 on: November 29, 2024, 10:19:46 AM
To close the loop on this, I have officially purchased a mainline today 8) and decided not to pursue the C2A.  Figured the mainline will be a more distinct (or at least different) upgrade and I'd be more likely to keep my crack somewhat in the rotation.  Thanks, y'all. 



Offline Thermioniclife

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Reply #10 on: November 29, 2024, 03:24:05 PM
Atul the SM2 Is the stereomore 2. so I Can take the output from my DAC 2.1 and send it to my ML C2A  and Stereomor 2

Lee R.


Offline trollchu

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Reply #11 on: February 05, 2025, 05:20:57 AM
Hello everyone,

I think I made my account something like two years ago, but I also think this is my first post.

I often hesitate to buy a Crack because I always tell myself that the day I buy one, a random Crackatwoa kit is going to pop up for sale, and today, I was pretty surprised to check the site and see one C2A listed for sale at a time when I wasn't ready to buy. That got me thinking. The C2A may have been discontinued because it was primarily outsold by its siblings, but with Bottlehead's popularity, there's probably a lot of people who would be interested in a C2A if it were still a regular option as opposed to being discontinued. Would Bottlehead ever consider doing a slim C2A kit? By slim, I mean a kit that's been slimmed down to just the components that need to be there for a C2A to be a C2A, like the build guide, a BOM, the wood, the faceplate, and any circuit boards; the remainder of the parts being up to the builder to source. I presume the transformers are probably custom and intrinsic to the voice of the C2A, but a commonly available transformer could be listed in the BOM where there'd be no need to take on the expense of maintaining a stock of transformers for such a kit.

Even if it's slightly different in the end and possibly sold in limited quantities, if a slimmer kit makes the C2A a regular option again, I personally would be happy to take on the tedium of sourcing my own components. Would you guys ever humor the idea of a future C2A kit being primarily sourced by the builder?

-Kalil



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #12 on: February 05, 2025, 06:01:41 AM
We would definitely not consider doing that.  Supporting something like that would be very difficult, and the power transformer is definitely not something you'll find easily on the open market (it is shared with our Stereomour II kit, so it's something that we almost always have in stock).  Allowing our customers to source their own parts would vastly increase the chances of counterfeit parts getting built into our kits, and even periodically we suffer the consequences of this, which typically involves a maddening level of debugging. 

As another example, sourcing the 220uF/250V power supply capacitors requires considering the ripple current rating of the available parts when selecting said capacitor, as too low of a ripple current rating will lead to extremely short capacitor life.  Aside from some of the 10x6 sized power amps sold in the 20th century, we don't really find that any of our products are wearing through their power supply capacitors due to our picky parts selection process.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Doc B.

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Reply #13 on: February 05, 2025, 09:40:53 AM
PB did a nice job of explaining why we don't do the partial kit thing. It's just not economically feasible. I think that the folks who put projects out there as a sort of hobby/public service with parts lists for DIYers are most admirable. But we want to fill a little bit different niche of the hobby.

Our intention has alway been to offer a quality product with known performance based upon our experience in terms of circuit design and a thorough understanding of the rationale behind component selection. As soon as we relinquish the control over parts selection all bets are off on the quality of the final outcome. I don't mean to say someone can't do a great job sourcing parts on their own. But we would be put into a situation where we don't have enough control to be able to take responsibility for the outcome if it goes all pretzel shaped. That's already a challenge we face daily terms of our customer's assembly skill levels. We have embraced helping all we can in terms of guidance regarding the build process and spent many hours working up procedures to make the build as trouble free as possible for the beginner. But I determined some years ago that we have to draw the line when it comes to consultation on design choices. That can be a real can of worms.

To respond more directly to the subject header -
what we are looking at (I just had a conversation with someone about this today) is offering limited runs of some kits like C2A once or twice each year. That is a scenario that could work to everyone's benefit.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline trollchu

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Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 12:43:32 PM
Between what you both have said regarding the uniqueness of C2A kit parts matching and maintaining a consistent level of quality, those reasons are quite sound. I'm certain that the standards your team has upheld has contributed in some way to the long popularity these kits have held over time. That's also why I asked that, even if C2A didn't sell as frequently as the other two, it's got the same level of notoriety as any of your other builds. If it's available, it will sell. If you guys are considering limited runs going forward, I'm happy to hear that. Personally, I know I definitely still want one. Anything would be better than discontinued.

Thanks to you both for humoring my question.