Output Capacitor Upgrading Questions

jrihs · 130980

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Offline jrihs

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Reply #60 on: January 19, 2012, 03:37:31 PM
Yes, I do take reviews with a grain of salt....er bourbon actually. but... 1) I do see some consistency in reviews (of the whole 2 i've seen), 2) they are interesting, 3) gotta start somewhere, and 4) I think they do a fair service at pinning down the really good from the really bad (or rather so so caps). What do you think about this guys observations (see proceeding link)? Do they at all jive with yours? Anyone else find significant deviations from his observations?

Thanks in advance...

John Rihs


Offline porcupunctis

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Reply #61 on: January 19, 2012, 04:01:49 PM
I understand what you are saying when you say "I have to start somewhere" because I was there not too long ago.  I was reading reviews and speck sheets and just about everything else hoping to make a truly informed decision about the very best caps for "me", of course.

There is a lot of personal taste and a good bit of psychology that goes into what any person thinks is an awesome capacitor for their system.  Myself included.

Find some reasonable priced (in your opinion) caps that you think you might like and go with them until you really know their sound (months and months).  If you like them, do nothing.  If you think a different cap will cure whatever you are hearing then try something else. 

Premium caps are all pretty good, some will add a different color than others.  All of them have their fans.  Keep in mind that most of the great sound of these kits come from other aspects of the circuit.  The well-designed power supply, the single-ended parafeed, etc. 

Enjoy your time doing the research and when you are ready just pull the trigger on the ones you think you will like the best. 




Randall Massey
Teacher of Mathematics
Lifetime audio-electronics junkie


Offline earwaxxer

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Reply #62 on: January 19, 2012, 04:08:38 PM
Yes, I do take reviews with a grain of salt....er bourbon actually. but... 1) I do see some consistency in reviews (of the whole 2 i've seen), 2) they are interesting, 3) gotta start somewhere, and 4) I think they do a fair service at pinning down the really good from the really bad (or rather so so caps). What do you think about this guys observations (see proceeding link)? Do they at all jive with yours? Anyone else find significant deviations from his observations?

Thanks in advance...

Perfectly put jrihs! - These are ALL subjective opinions, and YMMV. I submit to the adage "everything makes a difference", whether that difference is positive or negative will vary. I definitely do not discount other reviewers opinions if I buy a product and do not agree with the reviewers assessment. If I didnt cross reference other reviews and experiences then its my bad. I just bought a Emotiva power amp and the reviewers opinions I have found are spot on. One happy camper. I actually optimistically expected more of an approximation.

Now, pure silver interconnects have been another animal. I have a stereo Crown amp that I use for my sub-woofer (class D pro amp not meant for audiophile grade home audio). When I swapped it into my main system to see how 500wpc would drive my maggies,  the silver interconnects sounded "harsh" compared to silver coated copper - very noticable, and the first time I have experienced silver as being "harsh". When swapped back in with my much cleaner class T the preferred sound quality switched back to the pure silver. I would not be at all surprised if caps can have the same positive or negative effect.

Peace

Eric
Emotiva XPA-2, Magnepan MMG (mod), Quickie (mod), JRiver, Wyrd4sound uLink, Schiit Gungnir, JPS Digital power cord, MIT power cord, JPS Labs ultraconductor wire throughout, HSU sub. powered by Crown.


Offline Grainger49

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Reply #63 on: January 19, 2012, 11:56:08 PM
I applaud his efforts.  He must have spent a thousand dollars, probably more buying all these caps.  Looking at the review he uses two capacitors, one in the tweeter and one in the midrange crossovers.  He doesn't draw any conclusions on bass response, they were not used there. 

Using two caps, drawing a conclusion must be limited to the frequency ranges each is used in.  He does mention that he used different tweeters on caps to see which matched best.  That is a lot of work!
« Last Edit: March 21, 2015, 04:39:46 AM by Grainger49 »



Offline jrihs

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Reply #64 on: January 20, 2012, 07:50:01 AM
I applaud his efforts.  That is a lot of work!  

Indeed he did put allot of work in it...

I have noticed similar comments and enthusiasm on this forum for relevant caps as he has. I find that encouraging...but like we all say, "...grain of salt, YMMV, whatever floats your boat, its subjective...etc."

Thanks for your assessment...spot on!

John Rihs


Offline Jim R.

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Reply #65 on: January 20, 2012, 11:46:28 AM
In general a film cap will have a dissipation factor at least an order of magnitude, and often, many, lower than the best electrolytics, so at least in theory, they should be cleaner, clearer, or whatever you find happens with lower ESR caps.

As Desmond said, I have a couplepairs of blackgate NH seies non-polar caps that are 150 uF 350v, which I could, and probably will at least try as coupling caps in the crack.  Not there yet though.

IMO you'll probably get more mileage of wrapping a piece of dynamat xtreme around the cap to help damp it.

Also what Desmond said about me and blackgates is not perfectly accurate -- in fact I fid most black gates to be over hyped, edgy, brittle and not worth the money -- with very few exceptions and in very few applications -- and the point is mostly moot as they are basically unobtainum these days.  The big WKZ series power supply caps were superb, but even if you can find them these days, the prices will amaze you.  FK and NH and N are really the only other BGs I've used but if a film cap that would have fit where I used them, I probably would have opted for that.

An all film cap power supply and film cathode bypasses on a SET amp is a thing of beauty, but the amp would have to be huge in order to accomodate the typical values/voltages we deal with.

I'm planning film PS bypasses in my stereomour, and cathode bypasses as well -- plus vcap copper teflon coupling caps (bought a used pair for super cheap) and a pair of 3.9 uF ampohm poly film/oil pf caps -- in case anybody wanted to know.  If the copper vcaps turn out to be too much then Reality MRs will be subbed.

Anyway, go with the film caps, and where the silmics are nice as electrolytics go, they are not available in non-polar versions, so they can't be used as coupling caps in the Crack.

HTH,

Jim

Jim Rebman -- recovering audiophile

Equitech balanced power; uRendu, USB processor -> Musette DAC -> 5670 tube buffer -> Finale Audio F138 FFX -> Cain and Cain Abbys near-field).

s.e.x. 2.1 under construction.  Want list: Stereomour II

All ICs homemade (speaker and power next)


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #66 on: January 20, 2012, 12:32:11 PM
...
Anyway, go with the film caps, and where the silmics are nice as electrolytics go, they are not available in non-polar versions, so they can't be used as coupling caps in the Crack.
The output cap in Crack has about 100vDC across it, and there is no technical reason to avoid polarized caps.

Paul Joppa


Offline Jim R.

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Reply #67 on: January 20, 2012, 12:59:14 PM
Paul,

Sorry, my bad -- for some reason I thought these had to be non-polar and that the caps supplied with the kit were NP.


Thanks for the correction.

-- Jim

Jim Rebman -- recovering audiophile

Equitech balanced power; uRendu, USB processor -> Musette DAC -> 5670 tube buffer -> Finale Audio F138 FFX -> Cain and Cain Abbys near-field).

s.e.x. 2.1 under construction.  Want list: Stereomour II

All ICs homemade (speaker and power next)


Offline Laudanum

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Reply #68 on: January 21, 2012, 02:56:08 AM
Sorry Jim.  I should have said you were knowledgeable and/or had experience regarding the BG's, not necessarily a fan of them in general.   I assumed that based on our discussion a while back and I shouldnt have generalized, as you were specific about the non-polarized BG's. 

Desmond G.


Offline Jim R.

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Reply #69 on: January 21, 2012, 04:06:15 AM
Desmond,

No problemo.  As I said, for the most part I think they are just overhyped and some of them actually seem to do more harm than good, depending of course on a zillion factors, so always best for people to try for themselves -- and if they like what they hear, so be it.

I used several in my Dad's Millet MiniMax and it sounds fine.  Of course there is absolutely no room in there for anything but electrolytics -- that amp is a true 10 pounds of potatos in a 5 pound bag :-).


Jim Rebman -- recovering audiophile

Equitech balanced power; uRendu, USB processor -> Musette DAC -> 5670 tube buffer -> Finale Audio F138 FFX -> Cain and Cain Abbys near-field).

s.e.x. 2.1 under construction.  Want list: Stereomour II

All ICs homemade (speaker and power next)


Offline earwaxxer

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Reply #70 on: January 21, 2012, 05:38:34 AM
Here is an electrolytic cap review to add to your collection if you dont have it.

http://tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/electrolyticcapacitors.html

Eric
Emotiva XPA-2, Magnepan MMG (mod), Quickie (mod), JRiver, Wyrd4sound uLink, Schiit Gungnir, JPS Digital power cord, MIT power cord, JPS Labs ultraconductor wire throughout, HSU sub. powered by Crown.


Offline jrihs

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Reply #71 on: January 21, 2012, 07:30:52 AM
Thanks earwaxer. That was new to me.

John Rihs


Offline BNAL

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Reply #72 on: February 02, 2012, 02:39:10 PM
I was reading through the thread and saw some talk about bypassing the electrolitic caps with Russian Teflon caps, but no comments on what the results were. I'm hoping someone could provide feedback on their reasults.

I'm burning in some .22uF Russian Teflons, hoping to hear if there was an improvement. I also have the caps in .1uF as well and may the them a try as well.

Brad Nalitt
Iron Upgraded S.E.X. Amp 2.0
Foreplay III
Quickie w/PJCCS
Eros Phono
Blumenstein Orca Speakers, Baby Benthic Subs
S.E.X.y Speakers W/FT17H Horn Tweeters
Thorens TD 125 MkII W/ Shure M97xE JICO SAS Stylus


Offline BNAL

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Reply #73 on: February 04, 2012, 10:05:04 AM

Brad Nalitt
Iron Upgraded S.E.X. Amp 2.0
Foreplay III
Quickie w/PJCCS
Eros Phono
Blumenstein Orca Speakers, Baby Benthic Subs
S.E.X.y Speakers W/FT17H Horn Tweeters
Thorens TD 125 MkII W/ Shure M97xE JICO SAS Stylus


Offline Grainger49

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Reply #74 on: February 04, 2012, 10:34:10 AM
I have a pair of similar caps in the PDMPS of my FP 2.  Smooth sound to them.  Additional bass too.  As mine isn't a Crack YMMV.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2015, 04:40:32 AM by Grainger49 »