Eros In The House ! ! !

[Grainger49]

Finished my Eros about 1:30, tests by 2:00 yesterday.  I started listening to some LPs that I had been using to compare my Grado/VPI setup to my Denon/Dual setup through my Seduction.

The Denon had been seducing me (with the Denon SUT) and the Seduction was all about the Denon's detail.  There were things I heard there I missed with the Grado.  But the soundstage with the Denon wasn't nearly as well defined as the Grado.  And, I am a soundstage junkie.

The Eros gives that detail back to the Grado, haven't even tried the Denon yet.  The bass is smoother, that is, there doesn't seem to be any notes accentuated or attenuated.  I hadn't noticed a lack of smoothness with the Seduction but the Eros points out there is some, small as it is.  Maybe it is just the well known extension that the Eros brings to the table.

The midrange and highs have greater clarity.  Notice I haven't written earlier?  I was listening at every free moment.

Needless to say, I'm digging it!  Back to music!

P.S. I built rock stock except for the 3 audio tube sockets, composite Teflon, thanks to the poster who pointed me to these, and 4, 2 short runs of solid silver wire.  These parts couldn't be replaced easily in the future and make minimal impact on the sound.  Pictures when I get the chance late this week.

[Anton]

Grainger,
Conratulations!!! 

[ssssly]

Glad you are digging the new Eros.

Have you tried the Denon with a Peerless or Cinemag SUT?

I think I have a couple extra Peerless 4722 transformers in a box someplace I could lend you if you want to try them out. Have been meaning to pick up a couple of the Cinemags. They are pretty cheap and I've seen quite a few positive reviews.

[Grainger49]

Crap! I got logged out before my post got sent.  This is it:

Thanks guys!  I'm at Paully's house so I wasn't online yesterday at all.  We changed his Paramounts back to 300B and took out the MQ iron.  He is going to build a scratch build 45 amp.

I have been using a 1986 Denon DL-103C and the Denon transformer that came with it back then.  It had been retired for some time and is in good shape.  Sounds really nice!  And my system shows its attributes, and deficiencies (depth of soundstage).

I'd like to try some different SUTs and maybe the Bottlehead tubed step up device (hint, hint, Doc!).  Thanks for the offer, I'll PM you later this week when home.

[Grainger49]

More listening today, I just PMd ssssly back today, a week late.  I have an odd thing happening with my system.  Often instruments appear to the right of the right speaker, never outside the left.  It could be the result of a reflection.  But, today I hung a towel where I thought the reflection is (first reflection spot along the wall) and it didn't change a thing.

At VSAC 2008 I asked Paul Stubblebine about mastering depth of soundstage and really didn't get an answer.  It has to be a phase thing.  I have smoked a few people with a deep soundstage but maybe it is the result of unfocused images. I often see an inverse relationship with image focus and depth of soundstage.

I'm scratching my head here.  Anyone have any input,

Thanks,

[Doc B.]

I could also be something to do with the time alignment of your drivers, or you might solve it easily with a bit more toe-in.

[Grainger49]

Dan,

I have no toe in right now.  I will try some and see what happens.  Thanks for the response.

Edit: Toed them in, aimed at the listening chair with a laser pointer.  There was no improvement in depth.  I think it is a character of the cartridge.  I will try moving them out slowly.

[ssssly]

Doc beat me to it.

The toe in was my first guess as well. Although I don't consider instruments seeming to come from outside the speakers a bad thing as long as the image is still sharp. Is actually what I strive for. As long as the image stays perfectly crisp I prefer a wide soundstage to a deep one.

If the room the speakers are in isn't symmetrical toe in can be a bit more complicated, as well as listening position.

I generally try starting out with the speakers and listening position as close to an equilateral triangle as possible (equal distance between the speakers as from the speakers to the listening position). I then mark off a 18" grid in masking tape under where the speakers will be. You can then adjust distance on the x/y axis and toe in angle very accurately. And if the change sounds worse you know you can go back to the exact same starting point to further gauge. 

I then rough it in with standard "set up disc" stuff (channel and phase tests). Then I fine tune it with music that I am very familiar with. Most recently I have taken to doing direct back to back comparison with music through my SEX and AKG701s to whatever speakers I am setting up. Seems to work bettor for me to have the static comparison  than just comparing the speaker changes to one another.

If your room is not symmetrical do not be surprised if you end up with very different x/y location and toe in of the speakers.

This process can be as time consuming as you like but definitely falls into your audio cheapskate, system improvement schemata. I have convinced several people to save thousands of dollars on new speakers by just setting their existing ones up in this manner. 

[Grainger49]

I'm still waffeling back and forth from the VPI/Grado and Dual/Denon setups. 

An interesting thing, to me, maybe not to anyone else, has been observed.  The P300 displays power output in 10W increments.  When I FIRST plugged in the Eros, Seduction off, I got a warning at 200W. There was an amber light on.  After some time it settled out at 170W and the green light showed, as it always has before.  Now, when I turn the whole system on I get 190W, green light.  But the power consumption drifts down to 180W then 170W and stays there.  Hmmmm... I can only guess at what is happening here.

Dan, Paul, can you conjecture?  Or maybe it isn't necessary.

[andy]

BTW, I'm just about to start sodering my boards together, on which runs did you use silver wire? I'm interested in tweeking during the initial build. Any other suggestions? Already planning output cap rolling.

[Doc B.]

I'm interested in tweeking during the initial build.

It's really best to build it stock first, then modify things after you have it up and running properly.

[andy]

Thanks doc b

[Grainger49]

BTW, I'm just about to start soldering my boards together, on which runs did you use silver wire? I'm interested in tweaking during the initial build. Any other suggestions? Already planning output cap rolling.

There are two short runs I replaced.  They are buried deep within the terminal strips so I did it at first.  I could possibly go with Silver STP later, if I find some, for the four runs to and from the inputs and outputs.

On page 62, 1.5" wire from T4U to A6 and a 2" wire from B6 to T12U. 

Searching back only two pieces of silver wire were inserted.  These left over from my BUF-03 build way back in the 90s.

[Grainger49]

Over a month later I haven't taken the Eros out of the system to make the first mod.  The question is do I put in KK Teflons first or the Choke in the power supply?

[Paul Joppa]

Do the caps first, they will take the longest to break in, and I'd be VERY surprised if they are not the bigger upgrade.