Seduction upgrades

[berniebanks]

After a successful Crack build, Ive gone ahed and ordered the Seduction with the C4S to replace my Graham Slee gram amp II SE in my phono setup. Whilst waiting for the kit to arrive (which I guess will be in the new year now) I would like to know if there are any components that would be worthwhile upgrade that I could build in form the beginning.

I plan to build stock without the C4S first and add that after its all checked out and working.

[Paul Joppa]

The coupling cap (0.1uF) and output cap (0.47uF; can be larger) are probably the most important. The RIAA caps (0.033uF, 0.01uF, and 0.0012uF) have also been upgraded with reported improvements.

If you want to change the RIAA, it can be modified slightly to use the Eros cap values (0.010uF and 0.030uF).  Start another thread if you want the details.

A number of Bottleheads have changed out the 47K input/cartridge loading resistor for bulk metal foil types, and reported improvements.

[Grainger49]

Tube rolling is a good thing.  I have like the old USSR military surplus tubes, the 6N23P, not the 6N1P which takes dangerously more heater current, they could burn out the transformer.  These are inexpensive and rugged.  Lower noise, usually lower than most other NOS tubes.

[berniebanks]

Thanks Paul and Grainger,

For the output and coupling caps what values would you suggest and what woudl be a good type/brand to get my hands on. I dont know much about boutique parts (actulaly zip) so please excuse my ignorance.

Grainger as for the 6N23P tubes, you mentioned they take more heater current. I take it that the stock powers supply can handle that.

[Paul Joppa]

6N23Pi is basically a 6922, taking 300-320mA heater current. The 6DJ8 takes 365mA, and if your power line voltage is below 120v, you may have to fiddle with the 1.2 ohm resistor to get the heaters right.

6N1P takes 600mA which the Seduction transformer can't handle unless you feed it AC instead of DC. I can't recommend it even then because its output impedance is 2 to 3 times higher, severely limiting the amount of cable it can drive. It has a mythical life as a "6DJ8 substitute" but it simply is not, even though it has the same pinout. Sort of like saying a tractor has four tires, just like a Maserati - therefor you can swap tires between them.  :^)

[berniebanks]

Paul

Thanks for all the info,  I've a lot to learn.

As I live in Singapore and we have 240v here I will have to run it through a step down transformer. Its a pitty there is no 240v version avaialble.

Ill park all the tweaks and tube rolling, build it stock first and jsut enjoy the music

Happy Holidays

[berniebanks]

One of the things I've got to learn in read properly, I miss read Garingesr tube rolling tip with regards to current . Sorry Grainger.

Paul on your mention of the RIAA caps change I saw that you posted some details in this post

http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,1079.msg9382.html#msg9382

I presume that's what you are talking about.

[Grainger49]

Bernie,

I put in the warning because if you search for 6DJ8 on ebay you will get hits for the 6N1P.  And I knew it wouldn't work properly.  

If you go for the 6N23P get the 6N23P-EV, that is a special version that sounds better.  They are a little more expensive than the regular ones but still a great price for a very clean tube with great soundstage!

All of the USSR surplus parts are a good deal.  You could go with the jumbo 0.47uF@200V Teflon caps that they sell.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-47uF-200V-teflon-capacitors-FT-3-TESTED-1000V-Lot-2-/200668542835?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2eb8c6f773

Forget those that say "tested at 1000V," use them at the rated voltage.  They don't last at higher voltages all day.

Other Teflon 0.47uF (at 300V this time $147 each):
http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_vcap_tftf.html

This makes 4 for $40 look downright cheap!

Be aware Teflon caps take a long time to break in.  I have a painless patented (just joking) way of breaking in caps:

Link To Fast Break In Post

[berniebanks]

Grainger,

Thanks for all the info and the links. I have to say this is a really friendly community and I appreciate all the help and encouragement you give.

Im really looking forward to building it when it finally arrives.

Happy holidays to you

[Grainger49]

Hopefully you can bake the KK Teflons (nick name for the USSR surplus) before you need them.  Order now, it takes at least 10 days to get them, often 2 weeks or more.  But then you will need to give them the work out.

[jamestw]

Russian teflon caps are good, I use them in my Seduction, FT-3 0.1uf/630V in RIAA and 0.1uf/200V couple with 0.47uf/630V Mundorf silver-oil output caps.
Before that, I was using the Mundorf silver-oil 0.1uf in RIAA, good caps actually, But after tried the FT-3, my Seduction sounds more suit my taste, since that the russian teflon caps sat in my Seduction almost 10 months till now and never think to pull them out---
---yet

I built my Seduction about---
--- 10 months

by the way, I'm not a Russian but a Taiwanese, and no any conflict with any cap manufacturers.
heheh...

james

[jamestw]

by the way, the russian caps are HUGE, require room to fit them in.

thanks,
james

[Grainger49]

James,

Good warning.  How about posting a picture of the underside of your Seduction here for Bernie to see?

[berniebanks]

Thanks James for jumping in on the size,

I've gone ahead and ordered some, not too bothered about the wait as the kits not going to arrive for a few weeks yet so expect they'l get here first.

Grainger I have also managed to locate a couple of the 6N23P-EV tubes to give a go as well.

Happy Holidays to all Bottleheads

[jamestw]

Ok. took some pictures :
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bikedomeworks.tw%2Febay%2520images%2FFTcap1.jpg&hash=6fe5e81d952389a1e2b0c10785d9b7fd8ac981d7)


From the other side :
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bikedomeworks.tw%2Febay%2520images%2FFTcap2.jpg&hash=19c97c3743ff36b2f03d1aae9bbbc698bb2f5b71)


Another view :
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bikedomeworks.tw%2Febay%2520images%2FFTcap3.jpg&hash=5b8ffe092b40012a6e5a260f1e1ad97bc200b66d)


Now my Seduction accompany with SEX2.1 just completed few days ago, sorry for SEX is naked, I'm working on its wood box, try to make it as same as the Seduction.
They will become a happy couple.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bikedomeworks.tw%2Febay%2520images%2FSed-Sex.JPG&hash=5fc920fd9d20f8bc847ebad64fb76ba1a38d4e6a)


james