The MAC Mini Thread

[Natural Sound]

I'm real interested in building a music server for my lossless music files. I'm seriously considering a MAC Mini for the job. If anyone has information that can get me started please post it here. I'd be interested in hearing about hardware, software, modifications, compatible DAC's and the best lossless formats. And of course, how it integrates into your Bottlehead gear.

[Doc B.]

For software Amarra is great. I'm using an older Intel Core Duo Mini that has has a processor upgrade to something like 2GHz. It's limited to 2GB of RAM, which is not really enough for the best performance, as Amarra and Itunes running together really gobble it up. A later Mini that can handle more RAM would probably be more suitable. I don't use lossless compression because the difference in quality compared to AIFF or WAV is very obvious in my setup.  External drives are cheap enough that I feel I can justify storage in the larger file size.

[Pfenning]

OK, not trying to hijack your thread, but I have questions too. Is the music server for convenience only? I can't see how it could change the current sound quality of my cd's? Plus, the thought of adding all my cd's to another computer is not appealing to me. Do I have to buy my favorite albums again from one of the online sellers offering higher quality recordings? How close are those higher quality recordings to vinyl? I'll be watching this thread close. Thanks.

Pfenning

[BNAL]

I have all my music saved as flac, and use a squeezebox. I do not let the player decode the flac files. I do the decoding on my computer first. This seems to make a noticeable improvement in sound quality. If I were to guess I would think that it has to do with the additional processing required by the computer to convert a lossless file that is effecting sound quality.

[tdogzthmn]

If your running OSX for software I strongly recommend you look at using BitPerfect which is found on the Mac App Store.  It's only $4.99 and made a considerable improvement with my DAC performance, especially with the new version 1.0 which has been noticeably better and has a bunch of ways to tweak how you send the audio signal through the computer.  

For me, its a must try.    

[corndog71]

I thought AIFF and WAV were lossless.  I use apple lossless in itunes and they sound as good as the CD as far as I can tell.  Of course higher resolution files will sound better than CD's limited 16 bit format.  But apple lossless is clearly superior to any compressed songs.  Good vinyl on a good table still kicks ass though.

I've read that the Mac Mini makes a great music server.  And if you have an ipod touch, ipad, or iphone you can get a remote app that allows you full control of your music library.

There's a company that sells slightly modified (warranty intact) mac minis as music servers.  
www.mach2music.com  They can also upgrade a currently owned 2010-2011 mac mini.  I want to get one but the price is a bit over my typical allowance for such things.  I'll probably do it in steps.

I would also disagree that a digital signal is a digital signal and that's it.  Stereophile debunked that over a decade ago.

[porcupunctis]

I think what Doc was saying about lossless compression was that he chooses not to allow any compression when creating lossless files.  You can, for example, utilize some file compression without loss.  FLAC, for example, allows you to choose some compression if you want it.  When playing the computer/decoder will have to uncompress the file, but there is enough information there to restore it to its original form.

Lossy compression takes compression to the point that perfect restoration is no longer possible.  Some parts are intentionally left out to get the smallest file size.

Also, my understanding about the Mac Minis is that they are loved for their quiet operation.  I use a standard PC tower and the fan was so loud that I ended up moving it to another room. 

[Chris]

Sorry to clarify, you are saying that raw uncompressed files and something like apple lossless (i also use), have the potential to sound the same using the SAME playback equipment?

[grufti]

Yes, lossless means that the bits received by the digital to analog conversion process will be the exact same bits that were in the uncompressed file. Lossless refers to the algorithm [the math] used to go from original to compressed to original ... no loss, same bits. The advantage is smaller file ... the cost is more processing, but even stoneage cpu's chuckle about the workload involved in going back and forth.

Sorry to clarify, you are saying that raw uncompressed files and something like apple lossless (i also use), have the potential to sound the same using the playback equipment?

[Grainger49]

How does lossless compression change the quality when the name implies that literally there is no loss?  If there is a difference that's not placebo, it sounds like a faulty software decoder, to me.

I have to admit, "Lossless Compression" is an oxymoron.  But the marketing guys get to call it whatever they want.  Obviously if the data is compressed something is lost.  128 is not equal to 64, even a fifth grader knows that, I hope!

Still the marketing guys are to blame, not the engineers.

For the OP, I have a buddy who is running a music server on a Mac Mini.  I will email him and point him to this thread.  I have heard the system and it sounds good.  Not the best I have ever heard, that is reserved to some over $100,000 systems I have heard, but I relaxed and listened to his system for hours.

Edit: I contacted him we will see if I can lure him here. 

Now I have the analogy of Winzip I see that there can be compression without data loss.  I'm not stupid just ignorant of some computer related functions.

[Wanderer]

I have to admit, "Lossless Compression" is an oxymoron.

No, it is not an oxymoron, IF the data that is being compressed out is redundant AND the results of the decompressed file is indential to the orignal uncompresed file. The bit stream can, and has, been compared between the source data and FLAC compressed/decompressed data. The numbers in are the same as as the numbers out. No loss = "lossless".

I can write

"222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222"

or I can write

"2  sixty times"

or

"2 60x"

Some versions take up less space but all translate to the same thing. Same information is stored in less space.       

I am NOT saying that in real world FLAC encode/decode will always sound the same as the orginal, but the difference points to an error in the system somewhere. 

     Kevin R-M
 

[Tickwomp]

I have one of the Mach2 Mac Minis.  Love it.  I went with battery powered option, and recently added the Pi Audio Battery Buss.  Was so impressed with the Battery Buss I just ordered an Uber Buss (for the AC powered stuff).

I have both Amarra and Pure Music.  They both sound wonderful, but I prefer the Amarra.  My Mini is controlled with an iPad and I don't even have a monitor or mouse/keyboard connected.  I use iTap VNC on the iPad to connect to the Mach2 via Wlan and it works very well.  I had a boatload of FLAC material on various drives, but used XLD to convert everything to AIFF to store on my music storage drive.  Adding new music is super easy too.  If I have it on a USB drive, I simply plug it into the Mach2 and open XLD and save it to the storage drive.  Ripping CDs is stupid simple too, but because I don't leave the optical drive connected to the Mach2, I have to drag it out and plug it in.  The drive is setup to automatically rip the CD into storage drive.  

Early on, after I got the music server working properly I compared it to my Oppo 83SE NuForce modded player and it was really no contest.  Music player killed the Oppo in every aspect.  Add in the convience factor of never having to dick around with CDs again makes this something I could have only dreamed of 10 years ago.  

Tick

[Doc B.]

Tim, we really try hard to be supportive in this community. I think you have spent time acquiring a good base of knowledge worth sharing. But your posts are unnecessarily aggressive, and it has come to my attention that they are turning a lot of people off. That may be the effect you wish to achieve or it may be unintentional. Regardless, I would appreciate your toning down the intolerant nature of your writing.

A good friend of mine once told me "When I was young I had all the answers. As I got older I found out there were a lot more questions."

[Paul Joppa]

... I'm just saying that it means something in the playing software chain MUST be broken for this to happen.

Given the widespread observations by many whose ears are really good, I think that must be the case.

It does not, unfortunately, follow that anybody actually knows what that something is.

[BNAL]

I agress and it sounds like it could be codec issue.