Soft start kit alternate tubes

johnsonad · 10459

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Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #15 on: December 25, 2013, 06:59:08 PM
If you stay with indirectly-heated dual triodes, here are the limitations:

The high voltage is regulated to 300 volts, so that is the maximum plate voltage rating for the regulator. Most dual triodes will meet that.  (The driver itself operates at around 175v.)

The standard setup has about 3.4 mA through the plate of the driver. The 5670 saturates (zero bias voltage at 3.4mA) at 55v from the published curves, so the peak output is +/-125v so in the stock Paramount with 70v bias, the driver operates at 56% of its peak capability. This margin reduces the driver's distortion contribution to the total, which is one of my design goals. To maintain this situation, you need a tube with similar plate resistance, unless you adjust the plate current to re-optimize.

The bias of the 5670 is about 4 volts, and as designed the bias (from the 431) cannot be adjusted below 2.5 volts. In practice this means you can't get away with a mu greater than around 40-50 because the bias would be less than 2.5 volts. A lower mu is pretty easily accommodated, and the obvious candidates are the 6SN7 and 12AU7. These tubes will work in the stock design if the bias adjust trimpot is changed to 20K from 10K ohms.

Since you are running the amp at lower 300B current, there is more current available for the driver, so tubes with moderately lower plate resistance are possible if the board currents are adjusted. But the board's small heatsinks can't take a lot more current. I would be reluctant to go much lower in current because of the Miller capacitance of the 300B. A current as low as 2.0mA should work (this would be about right for a 6072), though I am not confident it would sound as good.

I don't have detailed designs for other tubes at present.

Paul Joppa


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #16 on: December 25, 2013, 07:30:40 PM
I thought you'd chime in and throw something out like an IT transformer with a positive voltage regulator biasing a 3C24 into A2 to drive the 300B...

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #17 on: December 26, 2013, 08:05:35 AM
@PB - nah, this is a Paramount variation so I'll keep it similar in character.

Should have mentioned the Russian 6N1P and the 5965 (a favorite of the late John Camille) as also-suitable tubes. These were considered in the design. But we have in the past experienced early fading of sound quality from many 6N1Ps, and the 5965 is not quite as linear as the 5670, based on the published curves. We did not listen to any of the alternatives in the Paramount design though.

Paul Joppa


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #18 on: December 26, 2013, 09:49:18 AM
Thanks Paul and Paul. The list is enough to keep me busy for a while.

I'll probably try the 6sn7 first and see if the gain is sufficient once the cabs are built for these new drivers.  If so, I've got a stash of 6J5's and may try the 6J6 as a regulator. 

Aaron Johnson


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #19 on: December 27, 2013, 05:30:15 AM
Would a 6C4 be an option as a driver? I don't have access to the curves but it's supposedly similar to the 6J5 though max 250v on the plate. How about a 7A4?

Aaron Johnson


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #20 on: December 27, 2013, 07:02:09 AM
The 6C4, 7A4, and 6J5 are approximately identical electrically (They are both about 1/2 a 6SN7), but they each need their own different socket of course. 

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #21 on: December 27, 2013, 07:36:40 AM
6C4 is half a 12AU7. There are many other more-or-less suitable tubes. I recommend browsing the GE "Essential Characteristics" handbook looking for a suitable mu and plate resistance. It's as amusing, and as fruitful, as Facebook!  :^P

Paul Joppa


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #22 on: December 27, 2013, 07:41:59 AM
Paul what mu and plate resistance values would you recommend I start with?

Aaron Johnson


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #23 on: December 27, 2013, 07:53:34 AM
Paul what mu and plate resistance values would you recommend I start with?
As described in my Dec. 25 post.

Paul Joppa


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #24 on: December 27, 2013, 09:10:13 AM
That book is fun! I've got some research to do :)

Aaron Johnson


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #25 on: January 06, 2014, 02:37:53 AM
I'm going to start with the 6SN7 as I've got a few sitting around. Minus the socket and lead changes the only part to change is the 10k pot for a 20k correct?

Aaron Johnson


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #26 on: January 10, 2014, 02:03:29 PM
I'm using a converter from 5670 to 6sn7 and the stock 10k trim pot. They bias up fine to 175v. I'm a little confused with the switch to a 20k pot. Is it needed or helpful?
Thanks,

Aaron

Btw, from the first tube I'm already in love with the 6sn7 :)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 05:02:05 AM by johnsonad »

Aaron Johnson


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #27 on: January 11, 2014, 09:13:45 AM
What's the Kreg voltage coming off the adjustable side? 

It may be that PJ had the bigger pot in mind to allow more signal voltage into the amplifier.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #28 on: January 11, 2014, 10:16:51 AM
According to the published curves, a 10K pot will be very close to the extreme end of its adjustment. I think it makes better sense to have the pot in the middle of its range, to accommodate variations among tubes, hence the 20K suggestion.

Paul Joppa


Offline johnsonad

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Reply #29 on: January 11, 2014, 10:36:57 AM
Thank you both.  25 turn 20k pots are ordered. 
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 01:04:55 PM by johnsonad »

Aaron Johnson