S.E.X. sound & tube impact

jbarnhardt · 4972

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Offline jbarnhardt

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on: March 02, 2015, 02:39:18 PM
Hi folks. I completed the build of my S.E.X. late last week and it went without a hitch. All resistances and voltages checked out right on the money and I've been able to get in a few hours of listening time on it so far. I'm using Alpha Primes with it, and am coming from a Schiit Lyr (and a Crack/Speedball with DT770/250s). The S.E.X. is wired for 32ohms right now, until I install the impedance switching kit. The amp sounds pretty great right off the bat - great authority, spaciousness and beautiful sounding bass and lower mids. I sense though that everything isn't quite perfect. It's a little hard to describe, but the sound seems a little bit "boxed in" often, but somehow it does this while maintaining good separation and a nice soundstage... It seems kind of like the upper mids or lower treble is a little down (don't quote me on that...), and possibly there is a tiny bit of what sounds like reverb that is always present. These are pretty subtle which is why I'm having a hard time describing them, but the overall effect is that the sound doesn't quite reach the airiness that I was expecting. I have not yet had a chance to go back and compare the sound with my Lyr but this is not a characteristic I noticed on that amp. There is so much I'm hearing in the S.E.X. that is fantastic, I would really like to figure out what I'm hearing and hopefully resolve it.

Since the electronics appear to be working properly, I'm wondering if this could be a tube issue (either less than great tube or not well matched). I have swapped the tubes (L/R) and it seemed like the "weighting" of the sound shifted subtly from my left ear to my right. I've covered each ear and listened to just one side at a time and it's not enough of a difference that I can discern it doing this. I also left the amp running (and playing music) all night one night to make sure everything was fully warmed up; I think there was a slight improvement but the overall effect was still there. Also I attached some speakers to the S.E.X. (which is wired for 32ohm right now so it's not really optimized for this use) and noticed the same type of sound signature (a little "boxed in"). FWIW, the two tubes I received with the kit are different brands and slightly different construction (one has a small wire connecting the heaters that runs across the top of the tube interior, the other doesn't have this). I have ordered a few more 6DN7s on eBay so that I can try swapping them around to see what happens.

What I'm mostly looking for here is some feedback as to whether the sound impact I've described (slightly boxed in sounding, quite subtle reverb-ish quality) could be ascribed to tubes or if I should do any kind of analysis on the rest of the amp. I still have the C4S and impedance switch kits to install and will likely go ahead with those steps unless someone says here that I should be troubleshooting something else before doing that.

Thanks all for any feedback. Despite what I describe above, I still sat and listened to music via the S.E.X. with a huge smile on my face way too late into the evening every night this past weekend. This is a wonderful kit and I feel as though I'm on the cusp of (for me) end game sound.

-John

P.S. One small question I forgot to ask: what is the red heat shrink in the base S.E.X. kit intended for? I didn't encounter any call for it in the assembly instructions...



Offline Doc B.

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Reply #1 on: March 02, 2015, 02:43:24 PM
Try rewiring it for 16 or, if you have plenty of range on the volume knob, even 8 ohms.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline mcandmar

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Reply #2 on: March 02, 2015, 03:55:57 PM
Any idea what impedance those headphones are?     For me 8ohms seemed to be the magic number for a majority of headphones so i recommend you rewire the output transformers. 

M.McCandless


Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #3 on: March 02, 2015, 06:05:20 PM
The sound you describe is close to how I describe the sound of a capacitor or transformer that is not yet broken in.Unless you've been running it 24/7 since the build, give it some time and some music.

Paul Joppa


Offline JamieMcC

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Reply #4 on: March 02, 2015, 09:01:55 PM
The heat shrink is used on one of the clipped transformer terminals page 17 of the manual

8 ohms is working perfectly for me also perhaps its even a touch loud for quieter late night low volume headphone use and I attenuate the signal down at source for this. However its perfect with the speakers my dac output is 2.35 V

« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 06:31:56 AM by JamieMcC »

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Offline jbarnhardt

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Reply #5 on: March 03, 2015, 07:37:13 AM
Try rewiring it for 16 or, if you have plenty of range on the volume knob, even 8 ohms.

Alright, will do. I thought I recalled reading in a thread that 8 ohms was a common sweet spot but then the assembly manual recommended 32 ohms for headphone-only use. In any case, I'll re-wire it tonight and give it a good listen. I have all kinds of room on the volume pot at 32 ohms - can't really get beyond 9 o'clock (6:00 is off) or it's too loud. Thanks Doc.

Any idea what impedance those headphones are? For me 8ohms seemed to be the magic number for a majority of headphones so i recommend you rewire the output transformers. 

The Alpha Primes are 50 ohm impedance. Also they are not particularly efficient but are easier to drive than say an LCD-2 or 3. Appreciate the guidance.

The sound you describe is close to how I describe the sound of a capacitor or transformer that is not yet broken in.Unless you've been running it 24/7 since the build, give it some time and some music.

That's really interesting, thanks for the feedback - I definitely have not been running it 24/7 so I'll get a playlist loop going and let her burn in much more.

The heat shrink is used on one of the clipped transformer terminals page 17 of the manual

8 ohms is working perfectly for me also perhaps its even a touch loud for quieter late night low volume headphone use and I attenuate the signal down at source for this. However its perfect with the speakers my dac output is 2.35 V

Ah yes, of course - I had some black heat shrink that I used to cover the clipped choke lead, forgot about that.

Thanks all for the advice. Will let you know how it goes.

-John



Offline jbarnhardt

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Reply #6 on: March 06, 2015, 08:48:58 PM
Ok, good news and bad news. I installed the impedance switch kit in the S.E.X. and switched it to 8ohms, gave it some more burn-in time and the characteristics I previously described seemed to improve in a few hours of listening over the past couple of evenings. Tonight I went ahead and installed the C4S kit, which seemed like a pretty trivial exercise. The only issue was that I received a 1" standoff instead of the spec'ed 1.5" standoff, so the C4S board is contacting the upper portion of the 220uF capacitors. There appears to be no contact between anything conductive (i.e. plenty of clearance between components/wires attached to terminals 1-5, nothing from the C4S board touching anything except the black exterior of the 220uF caps) so I proceeded to fire it up. The tube heaters came on and the 4 LEDs lit up nicely. I let it warm up for about 30 seconds and then went to check the OA/OB voltages as per the C4S manual. I touched my meter probe to OA, saw ~75VDC, and then POP! The 8.2Kohm resistor connecting 6L and 11L made quite a noise and burst into flames! I immediately pulled the plug from the wall and nothing else shows physical signs of damage but it was quite dramatic. A picture of the carnage is attached. I can't imagine what might have occurred. All solder joints look great, components are the correct polarity, no shorts I can see anywhere, my meter probes are the kind that only have ~1/8" of metal tip exposed so I'm pretty sure I didn't short anything with the probes... I have no idea what happened. Any thoughts on what could cause that resistor to get totally overloaded and what else I should check for collateral damage? Clearly I have done something incorrectly. I will contact Ms. Queen Bottlehead for a proper length standoff and perhaps a replacement resistor. Is this resistor one that I could replace from Radio Shack or would I be sacrificing something by sourcing it there?

FWIW I am currently relegated to listening to music via my Lyr, which is no slouch but I have to say it sounds a lot less "alive" than the S.E.X. in my somewhat brief experience so far. The separation and soundstage presented by the S.E.X. are on a different level than the Lyr - it seems like a pretty noticeable difference at the moment but that may be impacted by my soul pining for my flamed out S.E.X.   ;-)   Need to get it fixed up ASAP so that I can do real side-by-side comparison. Thanks all for any assistance.

-John



Offline Paul Joppa

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Reply #7 on: March 06, 2015, 09:15:33 PM
The likeliest explanation is that the C4S on that side has a stuffing or wiring error. Most often it's a mis-oriented transistor or the wrong resistor. Did you have time to notice if the LEDs came on? at the same brightness on both boards?

Paul Joppa


Offline jbarnhardt

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Reply #8 on: March 06, 2015, 09:22:27 PM
Wow, that is what I call a fast response! Yes, I actually turned out all the lights in the shop to confirm that the LEDs were all lit and they looked beautiful and all the same brightness. I'm pretty sure the transistors are installed correctly but will verify that for sure tomorrow. Good to know that's a likely source of this issue. Thanks for the incredibly speedy feedback, Paul.

-John



Offline mcandmar

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Reply #9 on: March 07, 2015, 04:20:15 AM
Hard to see in the pic, but on terminal A5 there is a resistor lead sticking up in the air towards the capacitor, just check that isn't shorting and ship the end off to be sure.

M.McCandless


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #10 on: March 07, 2015, 08:31:15 AM
It's also possible that the board touching the cap was not a good idea.  If you poke through the top plastic on the cap, you end up with some rather unsavory possibilities. 

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline jbarnhardt

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Reply #11 on: March 09, 2015, 10:38:45 AM
It's also possible that the board touching the cap was not a good idea.  If you poke through the top plastic on the cap, you end up with some rather unsavory possibilities.

This looks like it was almost certainly the cause of my issue. I played around with my pointy meter probes and was surprised to find how easy it was to penetrate the capacitor plastic. I believe one or  more pins of the MJE5731A transistor on the "A" side shorted to the capacitor metal exterior. This would also explain why everything seemed fine until I went to measure OA voltage (and in doing so, applied a little additional downward pressure to the C4S board which caused the transistor leg(s) to puncture the capacitor plastic.

I have extended the plastic standoff with another piece of standoff I had so that the board is now in a "safe" location, and have temporarily replaced the blown 8.2Kohm resistor on the "A" side with a carbon film resistor from Radio Shack (I was a little surprised to find they were still open for business). However, perhaps unsurprisingly, I now have two LEDs that don't light up - the two on the "A" side. I assume that I've blown the MJE5713A transistor. Any suggestions for testing/troubleshooting the C4S board or should I just plan to replace all the components on the "A" side? Is it likely my short did any damage to other (non-C4S) components in the amp besides the 8.2Kohm resistor?

Thanks all for your assistance. I'm kind of relieved to have identified the likely source of the issue and am hopefully I can get this thing repaired quickly.

-John



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #12 on: March 09, 2015, 11:21:19 AM
The solution would have been, and still is, to get the correct standoff mailed to you from us.

If parts poked through and hit the metal case of a cap, you will need to replace both transistors on the offending sides as well.

-PB

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Offline jbarnhardt

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Reply #13 on: March 09, 2015, 11:32:42 AM
The solution would have been, and still is, to get the correct standoff mailed to you from us.

If parts poked through and hit the metal case of a cap, you will need to replace both transistors on the offending sides as well.

-PB

Understood, that is the plan. I just screwed an additional standoff onto the short one to give it plenty of clearance so that I could test to see whether the board was working or not. Can Bottlehead provide replacement transistors (that I am happy to pay for) or should I source those myself? My preference would be to get them from you guys since I know for sure they are 100% spec identical to the originals that way. I was waiting to contact Eileen until I knew the full list of bits and pieces I might need to request. Thanks Paul.

-John



Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #14 on: March 09, 2015, 11:37:19 AM
Sure, the contact info is replacementparts(at)bottlehead(dot)com.

If you e-mail Eileen, she will end up forwarding your request to that e-mail address, which may add a bit more time to your shipment.

-PB

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man