In search of why vinyl lovers love vinyl

[Maxwell_E]

It actually does, but It's another whole time issue. I guess I'll just have to do one of the two, no matter the time. a little here....a few there. Might as well start alphabetically: First up, Air Supply.

[ChrisM]

Thanks to all for feedback on cleaning records.  Grainger, I will heed your latest warning about dirty records wearing the stylus.  I am surprised how the sound changed as the cartridge and stylus have been breaking in.  I suspect a good part of the change is the stylus breaking in to real vinyl grooves.  If so the prospect of dirtry grooves being a serious source of stylus wear makes further sense to me.

How ofter to people typically clear their LP's, as in after how many plays?

[Grainger49]

I clean my LPs when bought new or after first listening to new-to-me used LPs.  I want to know how they sound first (I do dust with the Zerostat and if needed give them a minor clean with the Diskwasher).  

Thereafter I dust them with the Zerostat before and sometimes after playing.  My cat sleeps nights in my listening room (the TT is covered completely).

Edit: I have now read the GEM Dandy review on 6 Moons.  I think I will keep my VPI 16.5.

[ChrisM]

Grainger,
Is your point that the VPI 16.5 is more convenient to use or that you think the GEM Dandy does not clean vinyl well?

Chris

[ssssly]

a 16.5 is definitely more convenient but after getting the gem dandy I sold my 16.5.

As far as spending time cleaning all your records, just clean them as you listen to them. Tightbond is great for really dirty records and Mr Clean Magic Erasers are great for stylus cleaning. Are lots of really good home remedies.

[Grainger49]

Chris,

Yes, that was my point.  But I have no idea how well the GEM Dandy works.  The description sounds more inconvenient for sure.

I read this:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/gem/dandy.html

And remember I read it a few days ago, and I need more coffee at this hour.

My impression is that the GEM Dandy would require me to take my LPs down stairs to the kitchen.  There is no sink large enough to contain the spray upstairs.  I am not even sure the largest sink in the house would contain the spray.  I don't remember any drying process with the GEM Dandy (it is not supplied and could leave lint on the LP).  When using VPI, when I am through with cleaning, my LP goes back into the slip and I start another.  With the the GEM Dandy I don't see anything that assures that the whole LP is rinsed evenly.

These might be misconceptions as I have not seen a GEM Dandy.  When I read I could see these questions appearing in my mind as I read the review.  I also see myself squirting water around the Kitched, I'm messy.  The fluids are well contained with my 16.5.  I mop up the little liquid that I have sloshed off all of the LPs cleaned with one or two Kleenexes.

[ssssly]

You do need a decent size sink, primary issue being depth to contain spray. I actually clean my records in my downstairs bathroom (I live in Japan and most Japanese bathrooms are designed to be giant showers. The walls and floors are completely tiled and there is a big drain in the middle of the floor.) The first few times you will probably make a mess but after you get the hang of it it's not much more of a mess than washing the dishes. I also made a thin rubber gasket to cover the record label. The one provided worked but was a little finicky as it was a ring and not a solid disc.

I pat my records dry with a lint free microfiber towel, brush them, and then either store or lube and play.

The whole record is pressure washed. A couple spins of the record and any cleaning solution you apply will be thoroughly flushed away.

The only real "issue" that I could foresee is if you have hard water caused by high mineral concentrations. Don't know if you would run into issues with remaining residue but I suppose you could.

In my completely subjective opinion I thought that the records seemed cleaner and presented a blacker background. Being generally lazy however there are certainly times when I miss the convenience of the 16.5.

I think both are great products and just about anyone would be happy with either.

 

[pro_crip]

I also vaguely recall there being an attachment so you can use your garden hose, hence doing all your cleaning outside. I've got a gem dandy on the way.


Rich

[Grainger49]

ssssly,

It sounds like Japanese sinks are like Japanese tubs, deep.  Looking again at the pictures on the internet it is now obvious to me that the Plexiglas is intended as a splash guard.

Knoxville's water is extremely hard.  My house has a water softener on it.  Of course, the garden hoses are not on the softener.  I don't need soft grass.  Well, my grass is soft but you know what I mean.

[pro_crip]

I could use some soft grass right about now, and maybe a little Sleep too


Rich

[ChrisM]

It

[ssssly]

I'm sure who ever makes your DAC is very sad to hear that.

I definitely prefer my standalone DAC to the one on my Pioneer HT Receiver.

The biggest difference I experienced in my record playing life was switching from cheap integrated phono preamps to well designed dedicated units. It is not a subtle difference, at least it wasn't for me. And since getting my EROS I have never been happier. As a matter of fact I like it more than my Japanese friends preamps that cost more than their BMWs.

And that d2 is a pretty nice sounding turntable. I would use it over a p300 myself. But I have always like the sound of the Technics direct drive tables, and have never been a huge fan of Regas. Solder some good RCAs on that thing, get some deadening in the chassis, and you have yourself a nice little TT.


Don't know if you have one yet but if you are going to get a tracking force measuring device I would suggest a digital one. Just don't get ones advertised as tracking force measuring devices. Can pick up the identical units branded as digital scales for less than half the price. Got the identical digital scale version as my buddies brand name $150 DTF gauge online for $20. Even took them apart to see if they were the same components and they were identical down to the markings on the PCBs.

How do you like those Jordans? Have always been interested in them but have never picked up a pair for no particular reason.

[ChrisM]

ssssly, thanks for your response.  Yeah, I'm surprised my stand-alone tube DAC does not outshine the Onkyo pre/pro unit.  I didn't even buy the pre/pro for that purpose. 


My DAC experience aside I do expect a dedicated phono preamp should outperform the unit in the Onkyo.  That is not the part of the pre/pro I think they would be putting the bucks.  Living here in rural Vermont it's not easy to find a way I can try a unit for a simple comparison.  But I'll be scheming a way if I can come up with one. 

Thanks for tips on improving the D2. I'm going to implement them soon. I am surprised that this old unit works as well as it does.  The overhange gauge and test record arrived today.  I reset the cartridge using the gauge and my initial out-of-the-box impression is it sounds quite good.  Using the cartridge alignment track on test record I hear a large null in mono mode where the L and R signals cancel.  There is residual sound though. I have no experience with this and cannot tell how much null I should get. I can use my SPL meter to compare the speaker outputs or possibly use my o-scope.  My simple, ear up close sanity check suggests I have the same residual null level at each speaker FWIW.  Which seems like a good thing but it's not a quantitative assessment. 

Is accurate setting of tracking force important for sonic quality or is it more a factor regarding record wear, skipping. etc.? I can imagine it might be valuable for optimizing the dynamic response of the needle though.  I'm just floating the tonearm and setting to 0g and then using the vernier of the counter weight once calibrated to set the tracking force.

The Jordan speakers have been an interesting project.  I first was had a pair of Dynaudio Audience 52's, then I replaced those with a used set of Silverline Sonatina I's.  The jx92S are my first foray into full range drivers.  I first built a set in cheap plywood cabinets my brother and I made.  We used that to judge the design.  After about two months of listening and moving the port to the back side (instead of the front) I decided the sound was good enough to commit some quality wood to real cabinet.  I've been very pleased with the sound from these guys.  I ended up blocking the rear port in the process of tuning them to my smallish room (about 14' X 11').  I like experimenting.  These were a fun experiment that have now become my reference speakers.

[Grainger49]

Tracking force is necessary to keep the stylus in touch with the groove.  If you track too light then the stylus will not trace everything in the groove.  There is a good reason to keep within the manufacturer's specified range.  You might try adjusting the anti-skate.  Since you mention a scope try a test groove and feed the preamped signal into the scope.  Invert one channel and add the two traces together.  Adjust the anti-skate for greatest null.

[ssssly]

Yeah, what grainger said.

If you go to the manufacturer's website they should list the tracking force for the cart along with the other specs.

A digital jewelers scale can be had for less than $20 and will do the job perfectly. Just remember that you want to measure the tracking force at the level of the platter. I take my platter off and prop the scale up on a piece of butchers block that I planed to be the right thickness with the scale I have.