Cleaning Records

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Offline booangler

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Reply #15 on: January 02, 2011, 02:49:47 AM
It'd be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison of Spin Clean and NG or VPI or the others.
I have a friend who did this. Cleaned the LP with the NG, then recorded it to CD on his TASCAM digital recorder. Then cleaned the same LP with his Spin Clean. He still uses his NG today, but only as the drier for his LPs that were just cleaned on the Spin Clean. I have heard the playback of the NG version and the Spin Clean version, there is no comparison! The Spin Clean was the hands down winner.

Cheers, Alan

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Offline Wanderer

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Reply #16 on: January 02, 2011, 04:47:35 AM
I have heard the playback of the NG version and the Spin Clean version, there is no comparison! The Spin Clean was the hands down winner.


The effectiveness of the Nitty Gritty depends a lot on the fluid used. I don't know the current NG fluids but the orginals were less then the best. I currently use a VPI and/or MoFi "Super Deep" and rinse. For truely dirty used LPs I augment the NG with preliminary wet clean with Disc Doctor brushes.     

Kevin R-M


Offline cpaul

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Reply #17 on: January 02, 2011, 05:12:10 AM
Hey thanks, Alan.  I'm continually impressed with my Spin Clean.  I still hand dry the records, but it is remarkable how clean they end up.  BTW, I was just given a nearly complete collection of American release Beatles albums with several duplicates.  I may try playing one or two without cleaning and recording them, then re-recording after the cleaning.  

Wanderer, seems like a lot of trouble to go through for a machine costing upwards of 400 clams when a spin clean does the trick for under 80.  I was going to DIY a vacuum cleaner using an old table, but now that I have the Spin Clean it seems superfluous. 

Cheers!



Offline Wanderer

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Reply #18 on: January 02, 2011, 05:26:31 AM
Wanderer, seems like a lot of trouble to go through for a machine costing upwards of 400 clams when a spin clean does the trick for under 80.  I was going to DIY a vacuum cleaner using an old table, but now that I have the Spin Clean it seems superfluous. 

Don't know the Spin Clean other then reputation so not commenting there.

My point was that the original standard Nitty Gritty fluids were not the best - different fluids may change the results. The NG is just a drier - the brushes and the fluids really do the cleaning. 


Kevin R-M


Offline bobster

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Reply #19 on: January 02, 2011, 07:00:21 AM
It'd be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison of Spin Clean and NG or VPI or the others.
I have a friend who did this. Cleaned the LP with the NG, then recorded it to CD on his TASCAM digital recorder. Then cleaned the same LP with his Spin Clean. He still uses his NG today, but only as the drier for his LPs that were just cleaned on the Spin Clean. I have heard the playback of the NG version and the Spin Clean version, there is no comparison! The Spin Clean was the hands down winner.

Cheers, Alan

can't help but wonder how the recordings would have sounded if the order was reversed.  could show the NG should be the drier.  in other words, this type of test only proves that the sound is better after two cleanings than the sound after one cleaning.  to prove a difference in the two processes, you would need two records of the same recording in the same condition and then listen to each one before and after each was washed once with each of the devices.  dunno how using the sound of the unwashed recordings could be used to determine the records are in the same condition, either qualitatively or quantitatively.  even if you could, i don't know if easy-to-remove substances sound the same or different compared to more difficult-to-remove substances.

btw, i have no interest in either machine, just an interest in scientific method.  maybe i could apply for a grant to do the study. :^)

Bob Musson
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Offline Grainger49

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Reply #20 on: January 02, 2011, 08:55:49 AM
Alan,

The information is interesting and intriguing (had to use spell check on that).  I keep hearing good things about the Spin Clean.  The Michael Fremer recommendation, known vinyl nut (that is not an insult), carries quite a lot of weight with me.  

To cpaul, if you haven't any first hand knowledge you don't know what they can do.  I have not commented on cleaners I have not used.  You don't really know if a VIP or other cleaners more expensive than yours are more effective.  The experiment described by Alan is not conclusive.  The reverse needs to be done to make a conclusion.

I also wonder if two washings with any cleaner is better than one.  That is what is the crux of Bob's comment.

Years and years before the Spin Clean was made I bought a VPI 16.5 for $300.  A "moving sale" from one of the vinyl selling biggies.  So that boat has sailed and I'm pretty happy, see my previous posts in this thread.

I would like a shoot out between the Spin Clean and my VIP/AIVS (sold by Osage Audio) cleaning fluids.  Let me suggest 3 LPs where side 1 is cleaned by the Spin Clean and side 2 is performed by me.  I have already done this for a member at AK and he is looking for a VPI at a reasonable price now.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 01:55:06 AM by Grainger49 »



Offline Thoburn

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Reply #21 on: January 02, 2011, 09:36:29 AM
FWIW, I bought a VPI 16.5 (drain tube out the back) on E-Bay and like it very much. It is my only experience with vacuum record cleaners, so can't say it is better than the others, but it really does wonders to those $1 Goodwill (I have a few of them now).

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Offline cpaul

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Reply #22 on: January 02, 2011, 11:31:15 AM
So no one thinks I'm specifically bad-mouthing VPI or any of the other premium cleaners, that wasn't my intent.  Indeed I have no experience with them.  Also, as a trained scientist (as well as other things), I don't view Alan's post as scientific, and I'm sure he didn't intend it that way.  My comment was directed at the idea that in order to get one such machine to work it MIGHT take two passes to clean a record on it.  But of course, on a re-read, that wasn't what Wanderer said. 

As for a shootout, I'd bet that 10 or 20 seemingly similarly dirty LPs cleaned by both machines would give a pretty good, albeit non-scientific, picture of how they work.  My guess is that they will both do a good job, and perhaps that's enough for many of us.  But the Spin Clean can only clean the entire record (both sides) at a go, so a side 1 vs side 2 shootout won't work.

Cheers,
Carl



Offline Grainger49

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Reply #23 on: January 02, 2011, 12:33:26 PM
I wasn't thinking about this.  You are spot on there. 
 .  .  .   But the Spin Clean can only clean the entire record (both sides) at a go, so a side 1 vs side 2 shootout won't work.

Cheers,
Carl

Your earlier post says that the Spin Clean "does the trick for under 80."  But that is without the knowledge of what others do.  Yes, the Spin Clean might do a good job, but it might not be "the" job.  I'm an engineer, well versed in the scientific method.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 12:38:20 PM by Grainger49 »



Offline cpaul

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Reply #24 on: January 02, 2011, 02:39:39 PM
Agreed, Grainger, and that's what I tried to say with my followup.  What's good enough for me might not be good enough for others.  What I like about the Spin Clean is that it does an incredibly good job at a much lower price than the vacuum machines.  AND there's a suggestion it might do equally well.  Not scientific, and one certainly can't draw that conclusion from what was posted alone, but I'm most interested in those observations that suggest digging deeper and challenging widely accepted notions (such as having to pay more to get more - something Bottlehead seems to question with virtually all it's kits).  I've considered building an ultrasonic LP cleaner based on lots of discussions on other boards, but in the end, with my setup (Thorens TD 165 with AT440MLa and Dual 1219 w/ADC XLM Mk2 Improved), I can hear no surface noise on most records after using Spin Clean (scratches aside).  I can only imagine that my thoughts might change if I were into high resolution MC cartridges and better setup overall.

(right now, these TTs feed into either a HagTech Bugle followed by Quickie or Yaoin M12-B (phono and preamp), amped by a Marsh A200 into Vandersteen 1Cs)

Carl



Offline Grainger49

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Reply #25 on: January 02, 2011, 03:04:01 PM
Yeah, I suggested it (Spin Clean) to a guy who lives a few miles away from me about a month ago.  It is THE bang for the buck cleaner if it is only half as good as reported. 



Offline ssssly

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Reply #26 on: January 03, 2011, 12:07:00 AM
I picked up a spin clean used a while back for around $20 and tried it out. Seemed to clean records quite well but I thought that the bristles seemed a bit too stiff. Granted that assessment was completely subjective and I don't believe it damaged any of my records, it just didn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling. Could also have been a previous iteration. I see on the site they are now selling the MKII. Don't know if the one I had was a MKI or II or what changed between them if anything. I do know that I gave it to my friend Pagi and he has never mentioned having any problems with it.

I still like my GEM Dandy. Might pick up another 16.5 for nights I'm feeling extra lazy though.



Offline denti alligator

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Reply #27 on: July 14, 2011, 07:32:41 AM
um, how did you build that?!

- Sam

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Offline Grainger49

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Reply #28 on: July 14, 2011, 09:35:56 AM
Arno,

Dutch?  Maybe that is why I couldn't understand the audio track in the video.  It sounded like it was playing at 2/3 speed too!



Arno P

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Reply #29 on: July 14, 2011, 09:48:08 AM
Arno,

Dutch?  Maybe that is why I couldn't understand the audio track in the video.  It sounded like it was playing at 2/3 speed too!

LOL....nope...that is the way Tom Waits always sounds ;-)