Bottlehead Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Downhome Upstate on July 12, 2013, 02:18:24 PM
-
pcx started their 20% off sale this afternoon (not affiliated - this is a PSA)
-
I'm seriously considering some 10uF Mundorf silver gold oil caps for my BeePre
-
Yessir. I ordered the Mundorf Silver - Oil 3.3 uf for my Stereomour about 10 seconds after I found out about it.
-
What is "pcx"?
-
Parts Connexion
-
I understand the feeling. "Just make the good stuff affordable". I think the poor economy did help. Lots of good affordable stuff. Folks like V-cap are standing their ground. Screw um. I would like to get my hands on some Duelunds though! Even at half price I cant do it!
-
Yah, Duelund - You know what they say: don't take your mask off 'till after you leave the bank. Sigh. But, what the hell. Doc is selling Crack/Speedball for 44% off, and 20% off some good ol' Mundorf Silver Oil is plenty good enuf for me. Pardon my spelling & grammatical butchery. More fun that way.
-
Hey Mike - I have a bunch of the Mundorf silver/oils. Love em. I have them in the Quickie and my speaker crossovers. Anything Mundorf is good IMO. Nice house sound. Good value.
-
Hey Mike - I have a bunch of the Mundorf silver/oils. Love em. I have them in the Quickie and my speaker crossovers. Anything Mundorf is good IMO. Nice house sound. Good value.
The Mundorf SIO is my favourite too.
Roger
-
better overall than claritycap in you guys' opinion?
-
Chris,
The sound of a cap is kind of a personal thing. They season the sound to personal taste. Someone might feel that timber is more important than detail; or detail more important than soundstage (not me!). So better is in the ears of the beholder.
I have 2 pair of Mundorf in my system now, Eros and Foreplay. I have a pair of Clarity cooking to replace my Obbligato parafeeds in my Paramours and a pair of Mundorf to replace my KK Teflon interstage in the same amp. I will go one pair at a time to see what differences each bring. Better yet, I could jumper both positions and swap between each pair. And then my head might explode with all those combinations. We will see.
-
Granger is becoming the resident Bottlehead cap aficionado! We need one of those - An employed analytical engineer with disposable cash to buy and evaluate caps for us poor cheap bastards! Break out the alligator clips and let the reviews begin!
-
Thank you G... Please let us know your findings... for me, detail within a great soundstage is the ultimate combo...
-
hmmm, kinda like being in a wine club. I guess that the prices of wire were still too high due to the cost of copper silver and gold, but on the other hand, these guys have more wiggle room than jewelers.
-
I'm a Polypropylene film kind of guy, but when it comes to commercial Teflon caps someone else is going to have to carry the standard.
-
Understood Granger... We are talking about caps for "mere mortals" - That esoteric shit is not going to happen for most of us. When you have about $5K in your whole system your not going to spend $1K on a couple of caps... I'm not anyway (I have to keep saying that over and over).
-
Some day I got to spring for a pair of V-caps...John
-
I'm with ya John.. I figure, if I can get Granger to bite on V-Caps and he thinks they are worth it, I will probably give it a go.
-
I can't comment on the differences between V-caps and other caps, because Paul Birkeland built each of my BH Customs pieces(phono, line, & poweramp) with V-caps from the get go.
However, Doc and I compared my linestage with the BeePre/BeeQuiet at BHeadquarters and found it was pretty close. Each piece had its strengths. My feeling is that circuit and tubes are critical, and parts come in second as determinants of sound. One day, perhaps I will have Paul build me a BeePre with boutique parts with the proceeds from my linestage; but for now I will not part with what I have, as it makes wonderful music with the Orcas+Subs.
Cheers, Hank
-
I guess that makes it official - PB likes V-Caps!
-
I will probably give it a go.
Come to the dark side. It's just a couple hundred bucks plus change. 8)
-
I guess I am afraid that I will like them and want them in everything. That would be 4 pair at $200+ each. About the cost of a pair of Orcas.
-
Naaah, Grainger; Get your second pair of Orcas and increase the power handling. I do so enjoy your posts.
Cheers, Hank in Eugene
-
Thanks Hank!
My Orcas and other-sourced sub are filling my room at volume levels I can barely take these days. Working where hearing protection is mandated by OSHA is not doing me any favors.
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg7%2FGrainger49%2FSmiles%2FTipHat.gif&hash=e6ef7f0d5488d01ff7ef90294fc834dbd255538c)
Looking at your work, your real work not your kit hobby, I am reminded of a man I knew in high school (Atlanta), Ed Moulthrop. I feel honored to have known him. His work is in the Museum Of Modern Art.
-
Grainger. 8 x 0.1 tftf vcaps would run about $400 total. The tftf line seems a bargain now. I havent compared them directly to cutf but they have to be very close. I decided to go with the cutf in my main amp and tftf in the others.
Speaking of caps im burning in the clarity cap sa and pitting it against mundorf supremes. So far i like both but they def each have their own sound. Supremes are nice! Hard to pick a winner yet. Im only at 20 hours on these large 12uf caps.
-
How much will the 10uF@630V Parafeed caps for my Paramours cost? Only the interstage in the Paramours are 0.1uF. The Foreplay output is 2uF and the Eros output is 0.22uF.
I looked after my post. There is no 10uF V-Cap Teflon. The others would cost about $650. Still more than I want to spend.
-
True - V-caps do not come in large values. Thats kind of bumber. Every high end cap manufacturer has a crossover line that gos to high values. Even Duelund has a 10uF in any flavor you want if you have the cash! I guess its the nature of going with Teflon. Not sure how that works.
-
Yea, I am afraid I'll like them. I was just looking thru my stash of coupling caps, didn't know i had so many. Pretty much all of the Russian stuff, AN, PIO, Mundorf silver and a lot of the film/foils from the usual suspects. Now I just found some .12uf Silver Mica that i forgot about. got to be next up...John
-
I don't mean to sound like I'm hawking the V's. But instead of worrying about liking the caps try to remember the last time you made a simple yet jaw-dropping improvement to your system. How the music seemed clearer and more dynamic. It exposed details you never knew were there in recordings you've heard hundreds of times. Think about that when you reconsider the price. I've only got 2 pairs of V-caps. 2 I bought new and 2 I got used. I'd love to get more but dang they are expensive. :o
Still, I'm happy with the ones I have and consider them reference-worthy. There's still a bunch of brands I haven't tried. The Clarity MR caps come very close to the V's but are perhaps a bit less forgiving. The V's just sound great in every application I've tried them in.
-
I don't mean to sound like I'm hawking the V's. But instead of worrying about liking the caps try to remember the last time you made a simple yet jaw-dropping improvement to your system. How the music seemed clearer and more dynamic. It exposed details you never knew were there in recordings you've heard hundreds of times. Think about that when you reconsider the price. I've only got 2 pairs of V-caps. 2 I bought new and 2 I got used. I'd love to get more but dang they are expensive. :o
Still, I'm happy with the ones I have and consider them reference-worthy. There's still a bunch of brands I haven't tried. The Clarity MR caps come very close to the V's but are perhaps a bit less forgiving. The V's just sound great in every application I've tried them in.
Lol, I bought 6 CuTF Vcaps in .1uf because I need 4 and I couldn't interest anyone in going in with me to get a better price. I burned in 2 pairs of these bad boys for 5 days days solid and soldered them into place Audio Note Kit DAC and Pre replacing the Audio Note Copper coupling caps. I knew there was going to be a difference, but dang... I love it already, and they should get fractionally better and they get fully burned in. Highly recommended!
Tick
-
I think someone should try a pair of these Duelunds in their PreBee:
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.partsconnexion.com%2Fmedia%2Fproduct%2Fcapacitors%2F76756.jpg&hash=05dc3f3ce0e687befaa55008c772d484b6aa3ed4)
Only $749.95 each, what's to lose? ;D
-
Lol, I bought 6 CuTF Vcaps in .1uf because I need 4 and I couldn't interest anyone in going in with me to get a better price. I burned in 2 pairs of these bad boys for 5 days days solid and soldered them into place Audio Note Kit DAC and Pre replacing the Audio Note Copper coupling caps. I knew there was going to be a difference, but dang... I love it already, and they should get fractionally better and they get fully burned in. Highly recommended!
Tick
I considered your offer but have too many other projects on my plate. A friend put those CuTF caps in his BAT preamp and said it's never sounded better. They are tempting but $$$$ ouchy.
-
Ok, I didn't say I wasn't going to spend the cash, but it is still more than I want to pay.
-
Hey Tick, I too was very tempted to jump in with you. At the time I wasn't sure in what direction the new SR-45 was going...John
-
Hey Tick, I too was very tempted to jump in with you. At the time I wasn't sure in what direction the new SR-45 was going...John
I was just thinking yesterday, how much I would like to include TFTF coupling caps if I could. I have serious doubts they will fit in the cost structure though.
-
Hey Tick, I too was very tempted to jump in with you. At the time I wasn't sure in what direction the new SR-45 was going...John
I was just thinking yesterday, how much I would like to include TFTF coupling caps if I could. I have serious doubts they will fit in the cost structure though.
Lol, sounds like a ringing endorsement to me!
-
I was just thinking yesterday, how much I would like to include TFTF coupling caps if I could. I have serious doubts they will fit in the cost structure though.
With the rising sophistication (and price) of Bottlehead kits, what's another $400? :D
-
Its a slippery slope when you start with this cap and that cap, then you have to look at everything else. Dont mean to be the fly in the ointment but IMO/experience resistors make an even bigger difference...
-
I'm just playing around. Keep the cheap caps and lower prices. But maybe Eric has a point. We need better sounding resistors!
(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lu4ohj5ZNE1qb54cyo1_500.jpg&hash=b4c7c091f6abbec8f9474d1209241d77e8bfba3a)
-
Ohmmmm, LOL your killing me. This thread is hard for me to know if it's poking fun or tempting. heh heh maybe both. Why can't we all just get a long wire-wound resistor? I'm thinking that any cap bigger than a stick of dyno-mite!(70's flashback) is suspect.
-
I have as a result of my reading,put Mundorf supreme in my paramore 2a3 and my parafeed cap in my 45 amp. I thought about the silver oil but I had to save a get the supreme. I bought a .1 silver oil used for the interstage cap in my paramores. Is the difference big between the silver oil and the supreme?
-
I have as a result of my reading,put Mundorf supreme in my paramore 2a3 and my parafeed cap in my 45 amp. I thought about the silver oil but I had to save a get the supreme. I bought a .1 silver oil used for the interstage cap in my paramores. Is the difference big between the silver oil and the supreme?
I would not sweat the difference! I use both. Try a few high value tantelum resistors in key spots and see what you think!
-
Eric, where would one obtain the tantalam resistors? my 45 amp is direct coupled c4s to a parafeed output there is one resistor and one cap in the signal path. So the resistor is a 350 or so ohm and the parafeed cap is 3.3 mundorf supreme.with MQ nickel iron.
-
Choice is 330R or 390R.
Angela Instruments has 330R and 390R 1/2 watt.
http://angela.com/shinkohtaftantalumresistors12watt.aspx (http://angela.com/shinkohtaftantalumresistors12watt.aspx)
Parts Connexion has 330R and 390R, 1/2, 1 & 2 watts.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors_tantalm.html (http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors_tantalm.html)
Hifi Collective has 330R and 390R, 1/2, 1 & 2 watts.
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/tantalums.html (http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/tantalums.html)
I'll let you get sticker shock first hand!
Cheers,
Geary
-
Thanks Geary! - if you only have the one resistor I would go with the two watt.
-
Angela Instruments has 330R and 390R 1/2 watt.
http://angela.com/shinkohtaftantalumresistors12watt.aspx (http://angela.com/shinkohtaftantalumresistors12watt.aspx)
I didn't realize Angela carried the Shinkohs, that's actually a nice price for them (relatively). I personally like the Kiwame / Koa Speers resistors, they seem to have a more "natural" tone than metal film resistors and they handle a lot of wattage in a compact space. They generally go for a little over a buck a piece at PercyAudio / Partsconnexion / etc. or about 40-50 cents on Mouser.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ABjemq1O1aw/TW6Rgt48r3I/AAAAAAAAAG8/c1FAoemlA1A/s320/Kiwame+Stepped+Attenuator.jpg)
-
Yes, the Kiwames are very nice. I use and like them very much. I use PRP's when it needs to be a metal film. I have heard good reports on Takman carbon film and metal film, but haven't yet tried them.
Cheers,
Geary
-
Compared to capacitors resistors are cheap, even the high dollar ones. Except for level control, which is audio path, they are only used for loading of a plate, cathode or grid.
The current set resistor in a C4S board is said to have some affect on the sound too.
-
Thanks to all, now I am on the resistor band wagon. Thanks.
-
There is a post somewhere where Paul Joppa describes why Bottlehead uses the kinds, composition, of resistors that they use in certain circuit points. Metal film are chosen for low noise, carbon composition for grid stoppers and plate stoppers (I don't remember the logic) and carbon film for other attributes.
It is well worth looking for. Tantalum are not the end all for resistor use.
-
There is a post somewhere where Paul Joppa describes why Bottlehead uses the kinds, composition, of resistors that they use in certain circuit points. Metal film are chosen for low noise, carbon composition for grid stoppers and plate stoppers (I don't remember the logic) and carbon film for other attributes.
It is well worth looking for. Tantalum are not the end all for resistor use.
I did do some research on resistor types and the sound differences, and the "traditional wisdom" dictates that carbon comps are a good choice for a euphonic complement etc. Wirewound are indicated for where you low inductance etc. Where you have high current applications you need a high wattage choice. As far as the Quickie, there is quite a bit of latitude. I have compared a good quality carbon comp 220R to a 220R tant and the comp sounded like crap. That was my experience. I was shocked.
-
...
I did do some research on resistor types and the sound differences, and the "traditional wisdom" dictates that carbon comps are a good choice for a euphonic complement etc. Wirewound are indicated for where you low inductance etc.
Uhmm, wirewound resistors are basically inductors. Wirewound resistors have magnitudes of inductance higher than any other type. Now if you mean "non-inductive" wirewounds where a matching and opposing coil is wound into the resistor, you get lower inductance.
Cheers,
Geary
-
Mils and a few more companies make non-inductive wire wound resistors. Good for cathode resistors because it eliminates the inductance and has the power handling capacity.
-
Well I sold off some non used gear and used that play money to pick up a few more pairs of Mills resistors to make adjustments with in the BeePre and a pair of 10uF Jupiter HT flat stacked caps also for the BeePre. I love and hate these sales as I always over spend!
-
I want those Jupiters BAD! - My speaker crossover is begging for them. Cant pull the trigger.
-
I'll keep you updated as to how they sound Eric ;)
-
There is a post somewhere where Paul Joppa describes why Bottlehead uses the kinds, composition, of resistors that they use in certain circuit points. Metal film are chosen for low noise, carbon composition for grid stoppers and plate stoppers (I don't remember the logic) and carbon film for other attributes.
It is well worth looking for. Tantalum are not the end all for resistor use.
I remember Paul saying carbon comps are more effective at preventing oscillations then other resister types, which is the reason for grid and plate stoppers. Although carbon comps change in value over time, thats not a problem for grid or plate stoppers because having an exact value is not important in these postions.
-
Clifford,
Exactly! That is why they say any value from 200 ohms to 1k ohms. They put CC resistors in places where the changing value will not matter.
I think PJ rejected the metal and carbon film because of the spiral cut into the film being inductive. That would be counterproductive where he was trying to suppress RFI and oscillations.
I found the post on the old board. I had it bookmarked but I have a lot of Bottlehead bookmarks.
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=bottlehead&n=119635
-
FWIW, the performance of CC, CF, and MF resistors in the grid stopper application is similar enough that they can be interchanged.
-PB
-
I would not sweat the difference! I use both. Try a few high value tantelum resistors in key spots and see what you think!
I just replaced my 100k volume pot for my stereomour with a, fixed series/variable shunt attentuator. I used an Elma 04-1213 switch, which is a single deck, 2 pole, 11 position, make before break, selector switch. 11 positions works fine because I don't have very low volume positions or very high volume positions, only the positions I might use. I used Shinkoh Tantelum resisters. It's a big improvement over the pot. Everything is better: resolution, clarity, timbre, bass, dynamics. There is a lot more going on in the music. The impedance for the attenuator varies between 73k and 137k depending on the postiion. The impedance is pretty close to the 100k stereomour pot.
-
Thanks for the info Cliff - I'll have to put that mod on my short list!
-
Cliff, The idea of using Elna is solid. If one would only fit into my integrated. I think that I might be doing some measuring before the nights over. The Elna single deck might just work.
-
Eric and Greg, One thing I did was take a 1" x 1" 1/2 board and made a six eyelet board. I took apart a terminal strip removing all metal parts except the foot that bolts to the chassis and enough board to glue to the eyelet board. This gave me have an upright eyelet board with eyelets in about the same position as the pot eyelets. This allowed me to disconnect the selector switch shielded cables and input shielded cables from the pot and solder them to the eyelet board instead. By doing this I didn't have to redo any of the shielded cable other then disconnecting it from the pot and soldering it to the eyelet board instead.
I used two 4 terminal, terminal strips positioned on either side of the switch about 1 inch from the switch to connect the shunt resisters to ground.
-
The job is coming to an end. I have to make a decision. Where do I want to put some high $ caps? The Eros has 0.47uF Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil, the FP 2 has 0.47uF Mundorf Silver/Oil, the Paramours have four caps waiting to be installed (Mundorf Silver/Oil and Clarity caps).
So where do I want to change it up? I seem to have too small a cap in the FP 2. It should be 2uF or larger, I could have been under the influence for that order.
Any suggestions? The cash is going to run out in 5 weeks!
-
Try a pair of Sonicap Gen 1. You can get a matched pair from Sonicraft.com
-
For what piece?
-
For what piece?
For the FP 2. Not too spendy either.
-
2uF or higher.... I assume you need two, that could get pricey, but a good size to have on hand. I honestly recommend the Mundorf silver/oil in that size. I have four of those in the 2.2uF. They come in handy. I think the Mundorf silver/oil is a better value over the silver/gold/oil. I think it's the smart choice in lew of a Duelund or V-cap... I know, you're prob looking for some sexy new bitch. Sometimes it's good to stay with what you know!
-
Eric has got a good point, stick with what you know and like. I'm going out on a limb with the Jupiters but every once in a while you need to do that, right?
-
Cool! Can't wait to hear what you think
-
Rob,
Got you now. The Sonicaps are downright cheap. I have had them bookmarked for ages and never done anything with it.
I can buy those and a pair of Mundorfs. I'll do that.
-
Granger - you will have to let us know about the Sonicaps - they get very little press, they could be a sleeper value
-
Yup, I'll send myself a link at work to order tomorrow.
-
Well i definitely like the clarity cap mr as a parafeed cap over the mundorf supreme or auricap. Very detailed and spacious bringing a little more life too. Thanks to Deb for the initial recommendation. Thanks to parts express to be out of stock when i ordered and then madisound for having them half price a short time later!
-
Very curious about the MR!
-
I finally got around to replacing the stock binding posts with nice brass colored cardas ones. I can really notice any sound changes. Maybe a bit but I'm guessing if i was blinded. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference...but the look suits the amp better.
-
I bought a pair of Sonicap Gen 1s and a pair of (larger valuable) Silver/Gold/Oil for my Foreplay. I have Mundorf Mundorf (?/?/?) for my Paramour interstage and Clarity for my Paramour Parafeed.
So... I have some cap rolling to do after Sept 1.
-
Gotta say that I am the same way. I like the heavy duty stuff when it comes to binding posts and AC inlets. Not that I want to torque down on them, but just a great connection without question. And yah, they do look good too.
-
Hey Granger you should rig up something like Jimmy did. We need a resident Bottlehead caphead to balance things out!
-
I feel sure that I will burn in the caps on my Eagle downstairs then use alligator clips to swap hot between the caps I'm comparing like I did with the Eros. It takes several swaps back and fourth to solidify my decision.
Then out comes the solder and I try to stay happy for a year or two.