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Offline mcandmar

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Reply #195 on: November 22, 2013, 04:50:41 PM
I like the switch idea but don't take this the wrong way when i say please add an "off" position to it.  Reason i say that is a lot of people will be put off by the very idea of a filter, and besides being able to toggle it on/off will help demonstrate the benefit.  My vote is a 3 way toggle :D

M.McCandless


Offline John Swenson

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Reply #196 on: November 22, 2013, 08:49:48 PM
That's actually what the switch is for, the only way to turn off the filter built into the DAC chip is to feed it 352 or 384. By turning my filter off you can then use an external program to implement your own filter if you want to play around with designing your own. In order to do that you have to turn off my filter and send your 352 or 384 to the DAC chip which will then turn off ITS filter. The switch lets you do that.

If you are not doing that just leave my filter on.

There HAS to be a filter, if you just send a 44.1 or 96 or whatever, the DAC chip will use its own. The only way to turn it off is to upsample to 352 or 384.

BTW a reconstruction filter is not evil, it is a very good thing, it's just that all the DAC chip implementations have made compromises that adversely affect the sound quality. That is what my filter is all about, doing it right so you get the good things from a proper reconstruction filter with out the bad side effects of the DAC chip implementations.

The subject is fairly deep and complicated, it takes WAY more time than I have right now to give it justice in this post. I have written extensively about it on other forums, if you want to track those down you can get some of the details.

The over all summary is that  not having an oversampling reconstruction filter is NOT the best sound. It may be better than some of the horrible sounding filters used in DAC chips, but a properly done oversampling reconstruction filter sounds way better than either no filter or the ones built into the DAC chips. The secret is to find the RIGHT filter and how to implement it without degrading the sound.  I have been working on this for many years and what is in the BH DAC is the culmination of all that research and listening.



John S.

John Swenson
DAC designer
Well Tempered Record player -> Seduction
Moded Squeezebox->DIY DAC
BDT preamp->813 monster SE amp
DIY "Bazooka" Lowther speakers


Offline Chris

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Reply #197 on: November 22, 2013, 11:16:51 PM
Wow.. John , you sure have me sold with everyone of your posts... "does this make me TOO easy???"  haha..  I know you have already mentioned the possibility of a DSD capability in the future.. and as I finally get around to reading all the "audio show" reports.., they keep saying the BIG thing this year is DSD.... All I want to say, is I very much hope that you can "for extra charge of course in the future" is make DSD or whatever available as an add on... However.. like ALL my previous EXPENSIVE digital components that are mint versions of extinct siliconasaurus rexs"... I am only saying, with infinite trust in Doc, PJ and You can try your best to make it somewhat upgradeable... I VERY much know, ALL of it is not in your hands , but the industry giant powers... My point is... I buy  a $2500 dvd SOTA player.. 3 years later it is now basically a 500 dollar player.. Now my 45 pound copper chassis triple transformer beautiful gold beast is probably tough to give away.... times this by a few purchases.. and the digital world is quite painful to soul and pocket....  I MOST definitely will buy your DAC.. I have faith  that upgrades will be available for as long as technologically possible.. THIS is why we should buy a Bottlehead DAC.. DOC and Company have already established the "off the charts" quality, price and just plain common sense STANDARD..... I really love how Bottlehead is a group of such QUALITY people... Thank you guys... SINCERELY........  disclaimer... NO , I do not get a free stay at PJs summer cabin, nor do I know Doc nor get any free stuff... nuff said...... However, gettin' hammered with PJ at his summer cabin shooting the breeze about audio??  yeah , that would be a cool day...:)
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 11:27:01 PM by Chris »



Offline denti alligator

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Reply #198 on: November 23, 2013, 01:18:14 AM
Doc, what are the chances of a Xmas pre-order?

- Sam

Rega P3-24 (w/AT 150MLX) w/Groovetracer upgrades / Eros II / FLAC >J.River >DSD256 >Gustard X20 / Moreplay > Stereomour II / Klipsch Forte II w/Crites upgrades / C4S S.E.X. 2.0 +Nickel MQ Iron / Speedball Crack / Sennheiser HD600 w/Cardas cable


Offline Jim R.

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Reply #199 on: November 23, 2013, 04:41:04 AM
John,

Really, really interesting as I've always been a big FAN of NOS dacs, no software SRC and the like, but I did get to hear the chordette dac with the fpla and proprietary processing software and it did some very nice stuff to redbook and what you're doing here seems very much along those lines but with your own algorithms, etc.


Yes, with every new post from you I'm more and more convinced that this dac will be sitting in my reference system.

Doc, what Sam said.

-- Jim

Jim Rebman -- recovering audiophile

Equitech balanced power; uRendu, USB processor -> Musette DAC -> 5670 tube buffer -> Finale Audio F138 FFX -> Cain and Cain Abbys near-field).

s.e.x. 2.1 under construction.  Want list: Stereomour II

All ICs homemade (speaker and power next)


Offline galyons

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Reply #200 on: November 23, 2013, 07:00:44 AM
It is exciting that the DAC may be getting closer to release!  I would like to hear more about the analog output stage.  It has been stated "no tubes".  Is it op-amp or discrete? Basic topology? 

I have heard several DAC's with the latest chips providing pretty amazing numbers. But I always go back to an early 2000's DAC with a tubed output stage.  Why, when its numbers parts are antiquated? Because the analog output stage makes it play closer to music than the new super numbers machines. 

I AM NOT saying that the output stage has to be tubes. I am saying that I assume that BH has spent an equal or greater amount of time on the critical output stage.  I would like to hear some details about it.

Cheers,
Geary

VPI TNT IV/JMW 3D 12+Benz LP-S>  Eros + Auralic Aries + ANK Dac 4.1 >Eros TH+ Otari MX5050 IIIB2 > BeePre >Paramount 300B 7N7 > EV Sentry IV-A

Thorens TD124/Ortofon RMG-212/SPU >Seduction > Smash^Up> Paramour 45 MQ >K12's


Offline BNAL

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Reply #201 on: November 23, 2013, 07:07:18 AM
OK, I'm sold on the DAC and need to start saving my pennies, literally.

John,

I have a ST and wanted to know if you did any mods to the SPID/F out? The only thing I have done is build a PS based on your design using a Teddy Pardo reg and EDO.

Again can't wait.

Brad Nalitt
Iron Upgraded S.E.X. Amp 2.0
Foreplay III
Quickie w/PJCCS
Eros Phono
Blumenstein Orca Speakers, Baby Benthic Subs
S.E.X.y Speakers W/FT17H Horn Tweeters
Thorens TD 125 MkII W/ Shure M97xE JICO SAS Stylus


Offline Paul Birkeland

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Reply #202 on: November 23, 2013, 07:10:30 AM
Doc, what are the chances of a Xmas pre-order?

This is really more in John's hands at this point.

Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man


Online Doc B.

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Reply #203 on: November 23, 2013, 08:02:37 AM
John is really busy with his day gig now, so it will take a little time to complete what needs to be done. He is laying out the final PC boards and then we will need to have samples made and test them. So we are talking early 2014.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline John Swenson

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Reply #204 on: November 23, 2013, 02:35:18 PM
There is NO output stage! That is one of the reasons I like this DAC chip so much, it was designed to drive an output directly, no extra active stages and NO coupling caps! The output from the DAC chip goes through one resistor, the output of which has a cap to ground, this is the final analog filter for the DAC, that is IT!

I'm not exactly sure how they did it in this DAC chip, but it really does work and sounds amazing.

John S.

John Swenson
DAC designer
Well Tempered Record player -> Seduction
Moded Squeezebox->DIY DAC
BDT preamp->813 monster SE amp
DIY "Bazooka" Lowther speakers


Offline Chris

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Reply #205 on: November 24, 2013, 06:27:22 AM
Sounds Brilliant John :) With the ever changing DAC world... You HAVE to take your time to get it right.. we get it... And you are certainly doing it... kudos...
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 06:30:19 AM by Chris »



Offline Chris

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Reply #206 on: November 24, 2013, 06:36:06 AM
And...... I do not know.. BUT... maybe.. for you tube output stage curious guys "me included"... MAYBE.... The Bottlehead team can/will release an independent/dedicated tube output stage product for the DAC, cd players, tuners, tape players etc..... to make and experiment with??  in our own systems........



Online Doc B.

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Reply #207 on: November 24, 2013, 06:40:40 AM
We have a nice tube stage available. It's called Quickie. ;^)>

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline denti alligator

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Reply #208 on: November 24, 2013, 06:51:49 AM
John, what's your source? I'm wondering if I'll need to upgrade my computer when I get the DAC. I have an old PC with a Juli@ card. No separate power supply. Not fanless.

- Sam

Rega P3-24 (w/AT 150MLX) w/Groovetracer upgrades / Eros II / FLAC >J.River >DSD256 >Gustard X20 / Moreplay > Stereomour II / Klipsch Forte II w/Crites upgrades / C4S S.E.X. 2.0 +Nickel MQ Iron / Speedball Crack / Sennheiser HD600 w/Cardas cable


Offline Chris

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Reply #209 on: November 24, 2013, 06:58:32 AM
Great!! Doc... thank you !... My bad... thank you for the post, I was aware of people trying it as an experiment, but as a finished product?  .. but I guess it is not necessary... ok , I get it.. ?)