Tube Rolling w/Crack

[nick-seattle]

I finally got my hands on Amperex 7316 - the legend, the "holly grail", the ultimate tube, the ... Not to me. There are equal tubes and tubes that do a better job in some areas. See the full review: http://tubemaze.info/amprex-7316-short-plates

Note: This is my personal OPINION based on rolling over 110 tubes in Crack

[Bolivar]

I finally got my hands on Amperex 7316 - the legend, the "holly grail", the ultimate tube, the ... Not to me. There are equal tubes and tubes that do a better job in some areas. See the full review: http://tubemaze.info/amprex-7316-short-plates

Note: This is my personal OPINION based on rolling over 110 tubes in Crack

I actually feel the same way, so much hype for this tube, but I don't think it's all that special. Overall too bright for my tastes, but then again I do use dt880s which are fairly bright phones to begin with.

Anyway, I only paid 5$ for my 7316, so no big loss there. 

[BNAL]

Nick,

Have you tried the E80CC in the Crack? I have been thinking about getting it for mine, because there has been favorable talk on this post about it.

[BNAL]

I decided to give the 12AU7 RCA clear tops a try since they are reasonably priced. From some of the reviews it seems like a good sounding tube.

[nick-seattle]

Nick,

Have you tried the E80CC in the Crack? I have been thinking about getting it for mine, because there has been favorable talk on this post about it.

I have one coming from Ukraine in about a week or two. From what I've read Tangsram is even better than Phillips. Stay tuned. I will report as soon I as I get it and go through a burn in period.

I decided to give the 12AU7 RCA clear tops a try since they are reasonably priced. From some of the reviews it seems like a good sounding tube.

Let me know if you need some, I have quite a few of them (about 20!) - got carried away I can sell them for $20 for 2 including shipping.

[jrihs]

I finally got my hands on Amperex 7316 - the legend, the "holly grail", the ultimate tube, the ... Not to me. There are equal tubes and tubes that do a better job in some areas. See the full review: http://tubemaze.info/amprex-7316-short-plates

Note: This is my personal OPINION based on rolling over 110 tubes in Crack

I'm with ya, this is a great tube but I prefer the late 50's amperex bb w/ long plates and foil...or the siemens chrome...

[nick-seattle]

I'm with ya, this is a great tube but I prefer the late 50's amperex bb w/ long plates and foil...or the siemens chrome...

So yesterday at around 2 am in the morning O_o, I was able to get my hands on a pair of the 50's Amperex 7316 BB Long Plates and foil !!! Can't wait to get that tube - that should be interesting... because 12au7 Amperex BB Long Plates and foil is absolutely my favorite tube. I haven't had a chance to get my hands on Siemens Chrome, but I've read a lot of very great reviews about the tube. the time will come for that tube as well

[nick-seattle]

Reporting back now that I had a chance to to listen to Amperex 7316 Long Plates with D-getter Foil, I have to say - DARN!!! that tube is the best thing that I've ever had a pleasure to listen to - just remember that I tried pretty much every tube type out there. I played for about 2 hours flipping between Amperex 12au7 BB Long Foil and that tube and at first it was not very obvious that 7316 was better, but the more I listened to that tube the less I wanted to listen to 12au7 (remember I was in love with 12au7 - love is such a flimsy thing So two hours later with my ears bleeding - wait - I meant my ears smiling with pleasure - it was hands down 7316. The amount of undertones that tube communicated was just phenomenal and the gentleness that it carried female voice with was just unbelievable - amount of details was also through the roof - there were passages in songs that I listened to for 200-300 times that I didn't hear before!!!! It appears that there is more air to the sound of 7316 and bass is more balanced than 12au7 (some of you might be disappointed by the fact, since the bass is not superbly pronounced - like it is in Mullard or RCA BP - it's lighter and IMHO is much more balanced). So there, if you come across a pair at 2 am in the morning for a great price, take it!!! This will be the last tube you will be rolling

Update: Interestingly enough, after the listening session, we did blind testing, between Mullard 12au7 LP, Amperex 12au7 LP and Amperex 7316 LP. It was extremely easy to separate both Amperexes and Mullard - proving that despite some opinions that 12au7 & 7316 from the same era (both tubes were from Harleen factory made in 1958) sound the same - they sound very differently.

[BNAL]

Just got 12au7 RCA clear tops and really like them.  They let the music through.  It reminds me of the Mazda tube. I also got the Control 7236.  This is a nice sounding tube as well.  I had it paired with the Mullard 4003 and found it to be a little to tubie. The RCA works well with the 7236,  but I want to try the Mazda with it.  I'm thinkling this would also be a good combination.

I want to let people understand that I'm not analytical about my observations. In the past I would listen to the same tracks over and over to determine what I thought sounded better.  Now I want to see if I'm just enjoying the music. Maybe after 30 years of listening to the equipment I'm actually listening to the music.

I do so enjoy building these great bottlehead kits,  and now understand that the music and the building are to different enjoyments and passions.

[nick-seattle]

Another interesting find for the amp - RCA 6189 3 mica black plates. Very open, inviting sound - the richness of black plates and superb amount of details - very low distortion. I've read somewhere that 6189 was an answer to e82cc from Europe. Can anybody confirm this?

[Laudanum]

I thought that the 6189 was basically a ruggedized 12AU7 ... a drop-in sub with, maybe, slightly different specs.  I have a few and I think most are JAN or JG tubes and/or have triple mica spacers.  I dont know how that relates to the ECC82.  I thought that the ECC82 was just the Euro designation for and equivalent of 12AU7.    But Im not a tube historian or even a tube buff.

Have you tried any of the "lowly" GE's?  Either the 12AU7's or the variants (6189, 5814).   Ive been largely disenchanted with the relatively small number of different GE tube types Ive tried in general but some of the GE 12AU7's and drop in subs I really like in Crack.   I dont think they would be your favorites based on what I think your sonic preferences are but just curious if you have tried any.  I have a couple 12AU7's (1950's I think)  and, I believe a couple GE BP 5814's that are really great.   They are right there with my favorites which are the Herleen made tubes.  I have 2 or 3 Amperex relabels and a couple tubes that I bought with no silk screen brand labels that were sold as Philips - Herleen tubes.  I believe they are labeled ECC82 (Herleen Delta code prefix is present).  I dont know exactly what they are but all of the relatively few Hollan made tubes that I have are among my favorites along with a few of those GE's I mention.   Im not a tube snob at all but it still surprises me that I am fond of these GE's because of my not being impressed with the brand in other gear in the past.   

All that said, Im still running and enjoying the 12BH7.
 

[Laudanum]

I want to let people understand that I'm not analytical about my observations. In the past I would listen to the same tracks over and over to determine what I thought sounded better.  Now I want to see if I'm just enjoying the music. Maybe after 30 years of listening to the equipment I'm actually listening to the music.

That's the only way I choose tubes these days.  I'll do some pretty quick rolling at first to try and get a sense of the different tubes.  But after that, I just listen.  I dont listen for anything, I just listen to the music and the tube kinda chooses itself.

[Paul Joppa]

I find data sheets on the web for 6189s by Philips, Mazda, Lorenz (=e82cc), Tung-Sol, and Telefunken (=ecc802s). Ruggedized (shock and vibration) and specified for many turn on/turn off cycles, but otherwise the same as a 12AU7.

[nick-seattle]

I thought that the 6189 was basically a ruggedized 12AU7 ... a drop-in sub with, maybe, slightly different specs.  I have a few and I think most are JAN or JG tubes and/or have triple mica spacers.  I dont know how that relates to the ECC82.  I thought that the ECC82 was just the Euro designation for and equivalent of 12AU7.    But Im not a tube historian or even a tube buff.

Have you tried any of the "lowly" GE's?  Either the 12AU7's or the variants (6189, 5814).   Ive been largely disenchanted with the relatively small number of different GE tube types Ive tried in general but some of the GE 12AU7's and drop in subs I really like in Crack.   I dont think they would be your favorites based on what I think your sonic preferences are but just curious if you have tried any.  I have a couple 12AU7's (1950's I think)  and, I believe a couple GE BP 5814's that are really great.   They are right there with my favorites which are the Herleen made tubes.  I have 2 or 3 Amperex relabels and a couple tubes that I bought with no silk screen brand labels that were sold as Philips - Herleen tubes.  I believe they are labeled ECC82 (Herleen Delta code prefix is present).  I dont know exactly what they are but all of the relatively few Hollan made tubes that I have are among my favorites along with a few of those GE's I mention.   Im not a tube snob at all but it still surprises me that I am fond of these GE's because of my not being impressed with the brand in other gear in the past.   

All that said, Im still running and enjoying the 12BH7.
 

I tried about every conceivable variation on GE theme. I do like GE 5814 BP 3 mica. They sound very similar (practically the same) as RCA 5814 3 mica at a huge discount. Gray plates, definitely not my favorite - I find their sound sharp at the top, can't listen for long. GE 12au7 Gray Long Plates are not bad, but still the sharpness for me is there.

About 12BH7, a lot of people love the tubes, but I just can't stand them, they sound very glassy to me I sold every single one I had.

About 6189, I think it's like 5814 in relationship to 12au7 - the specs are the same, but more care and QA goes into selection of the tubes, so the final result is better. this is just my thought.

[Dr. Toobz]

Never to be one to leave well enough alone, I re-wired the noval socket to suit a handful of near-NOS 6CG7's I won on eBay for rather cheap. Since the black wire that was already there wasn't quite long enough to reach pin 4, I re-did the heater wiring with some Belden shielded cable, and took pin 9 (shield) to the chassis ground. The result? I have a new favorite. Great soundstage, warm mids, and really sweet HF that reminds me of my SEX amp. This makes sense, as the small triode on the 6DN7 is essentially half of a 6SN7, and the 6CG7 is just a 6SN7 in a different-sized bottle.

I was afraid these might sound more "tubey" than the 12BH7 or RCA clear-top 12AU7 I had been using lately, but that's not been the case. The three RCA tubes I acquired look to be from the 1950's or very early 1960's, before the "meatball" logo disappeared. The have huge, dark-colored plates and there is a shield between sections, which was taken to ground. My understanding is that the shields were added due to the sections being shoved so close together compared to the octal 6SN7, increasing the chances of crosstalk between channels.

I also stuck a 6922EH in there for kicks, since the operating point seems similar to that of the Seduction (e.g., Agilent HLMP-6000 LED bias (~1.56V) and about 75V on the plates). The sound was definitely more clinical and "modern," in addition to a smaller soundstage than the aforementioned 6CG7. Not a fan. I've found this to be the case anytime a higher-mu tube is added, such as the E80cc. The extra gain makes for a more forward (and I'd argue, fatiguing) presentation.