Tube Rolling w/Crack

Dr. Toobz · 1224271

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Online Paul Joppa

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Reply #105 on: May 02, 2011, 12:26:10 PM
This thread has gotten quite long, so I'm not sure where the crept in - but a 6SN7 is a viable substitute for the 12AU7 (with a socket adapter). It is NOT a substitute for the 6080/6AS7/etc! You can plug it in and you'll get some sound out - for a while - but it will throw the operating points way out and will increase distortion a lot.

Paul Joppa


Offline sbelyo

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Reply #106 on: May 02, 2011, 01:01:32 PM
I have one of those adapters on the way and a box of red base 6sn7's Ken-Rad's etc.  I can't wait to tube roll.  I've promised my self to give it a week before I start rolling



Offline tubeglow

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Reply #107 on: May 02, 2011, 08:32:07 PM
What type of adapter does one need to use different tubes? Sorry for the uneducated question.



Offline Billyk

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Reply #108 on: May 02, 2011, 11:58:28 PM
I purchased an adapter from ebay :http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320659633166&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT. I am very happy with it. I think I have notice a very very small amount of hum but it could be the tube. Anyway for $14.00 USD you can't beat it, except to be warned it opens the gates to more options to spend money on tubes!!!

Don't let the glasses fool ya, Stand beside me when you measure my size. Don't let false estimations overrule you, soon even you might come to realize. I've been a wizard since my childhood....


Offline sbelyo

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Reply #109 on: May 03, 2011, 04:43:58 AM
I just put in the JJ 12AU7 just to see if it was any better than the EH and I think it's more musical and I can hear better seperation in between the instruments.  For a ten dollar new production tube it's worth a roll. 

Next is the groove tubes 12au7 ( I think I saw one in my tube box).  I'm waiting for at least 24 hours of break in before I try my telefunken and clear top rca's



Offline dubiousmike

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Reply #110 on: May 03, 2011, 08:26:06 AM
This thread has gotten quite long, so I'm not sure where the crept in - but a 6SN7 is a viable substitute for the 12AU7 (with a socket adapter). It is NOT a substitute for the 6080/6AS7/etc! You can plug it in and you'll get some sound out - for a while - but it will throw the operating points way out and will increase distortion a lot.

Thanks for the further clarification Paul!  I had gotten the naming schemes mixed up in suggesting that I might use a Shuguang in place of my 5998.  I have edited my prior post accordingly to minimize the confusion.

Mike M.


Offline sbelyo

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Reply #111 on: May 06, 2011, 04:56:46 AM
I couldn't resist....  After 15 - 20 Hrs. of break in I put in a 50's NOS Sylvania 6AS7G (black plates) and a Telefunken 12AU7.

All I have to say is holy crap!  That is the closest I've ever felt to "being there" while listening to my gear.  My Crack is totally stock and I did this on purpose this time so that I could see what changes made the biggest difference.

I can't wait until it breaks in!

My source is a heavily modified Philips DVD 963 SA.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/19911-upgrading-philips-dvd-963-sa.html
The key mods were:
Replacing opamps in output stage with BB OPA627's
Coupling caps are Blackgate NX
Main PSU cap is a Blackgate VK (or STD, I can't remember )
Nichicon Muse KZ's in all the key locations
Seperate Bi Polar regulated supply for the output stage ( bumped up to 24V, if I remember )
Replaced DAC chip with next model up in the same line, and then stacked another one on top ( That was not for the faint at heart )



Offline dubiousmike

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Reply #112 on: May 20, 2011, 01:00:21 PM
Does anyone know if oxidized pins can result in hum?

I recently picked up 2 supposedly nos RCA 12bh7a's on the cheap on ebay.  Unfortunately, the black plate tube (1959), supposedly the better of the 2, produces a pretty noticeable hum when plugged into my crack. The grey plate tube (1963), by contrast, sounds quite good and is perfectly quiet.  For purposes of comparison, I wouldn't say that I clearly prefer the grey plate to the 12au7 bugle boy I was previously running, but I do like it better than the RCA "clear top" 12au7 I also have on hand.

The black plate tube definitely has dirtier pins than the others and was harder to slide into the socket.  Could this possibly relate to the hum I'm hearing.  Would it be worth my picking up some contact cleaner to see if this possibly improves the situation?  Alternatively, do brass or copper dampers like these (http://www.audiotubes.com/damper.htm ) actually help to reduce hum? 

Mike M.


Offline Doc B.

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Reply #113 on: May 20, 2011, 01:40:01 PM
Just buffing the pins with fine steel wool can work wonders. If you want to get hardcore you can chuck a Q tip in a Dremel and polish the pins with something like Simichrome.

Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.


Offline dubiousmike

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Reply #114 on: May 20, 2011, 01:54:29 PM
Thanks Doc! 

Mike M.


Offline Billyk

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Reply #115 on: May 21, 2011, 02:03:06 AM
I used to use Caig de-Oxit and then some Pro Gold... I'll have to find it and try some out. I had forgotten about it.

Don't let the glasses fool ya, Stand beside me when you measure my size. Don't let false estimations overrule you, soon even you might come to realize. I've been a wizard since my childhood....


Offline levlhed

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Reply #116 on: June 09, 2011, 05:02:46 PM
What about the 6520 on the output?  Supposed to be a better version of a 6as7G?

Technics SL-1200 "MKE" ~> DL103r w/Ruby Cantilever & Contact Line Stylus ~> Audioquest PT-9 ~> Bobs Devices Cinemag SUT ~> Vista Audio PHOHO-1+ ACLE ~> Bottlehead Crack w. Speedball ~> Beyerdynamic T1


Offline levlhed

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Reply #117 on: June 17, 2011, 09:48:16 AM
I hosed one side of my precious 5998 by being too hasty with an input tube roll, I didn't give it nearly enough time to cool down before powering back up...I wanted to cry.
I did a little research and decided to try 7236, which is basically a souped-up computer-rated version of a 5998.  To my ears, I actually think it sounds a little better than a 5998!  It's at least as good.  I would have to highly recommend checking one out if you are having trouble getting your hands on a real 5998.  Yes, they aren't the sexy ST style bottle, but I think they still look pretty darn cool on the Crack.
Brendan @ tubeworld has a NOS pile of these right now for a very reasonable price.  I'm fortunate (my wallet says unfortunate) to be local to tubeworld.com HQ!

Technics SL-1200 "MKE" ~> DL103r w/Ruby Cantilever & Contact Line Stylus ~> Audioquest PT-9 ~> Bobs Devices Cinemag SUT ~> Vista Audio PHOHO-1+ ACLE ~> Bottlehead Crack w. Speedball ~> Beyerdynamic T1


Offline Laudanum

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Reply #118 on: June 18, 2011, 03:40:58 AM
I should probably ask this on the tube forum at the Asylum but I'll give it a shot here.  I was digging through my stash and found two tubes that I bought a decade ago off of ebay.  They were sold as Philips ECC82's.  Both tubes are completely wiped except for some etched codes near the bottoms.  One has the Herleen Delta followed by 2B3 and the other the Herleen Delta followed by 2B4.  Also, looking at the bottoms, each has a single letter etched inside the glass.  One with a capital  H and another with a capital E. 
I never used them because I was never 100% sure if they were 12AU7's or 12AX7's or one of the 9 pins with similiar internal construction.  I havent been able to correlate the code with a tube type, I think its just manufacturing plant and date code but I dont know much about code.    They have Halo getters and the half circle through one side of the plates and look like Amperex 12AU7 / ECC82's but I have 12AX7's that look the same.  They are flashers, but I think a lot of the Amperex and other euro 9 pins were flashers.  I tested them as 12AU7's and they test as such (relative to my known 12AU7's)  but it's just an old heathkit emissions tester that I use to give me a very general idea of whether the tube is strong (atleast out of circuit) and mainly to test for shorts.
 I didnt try testing a 12AX7 using 12AU7 settings (or vice versa) in the tester, I assume that I could try that without damaging the tester or the tube, but Im not positive.   If I plugged them into one of my hi-fi amps that uses a 12AX7 preamp tube, I suppose I would easily notice the lower gain in the decreased output from the amp if they are indeed 12AU7's, right?   I just dont want to roll one into Crack and do any damage if it's not a 12AU7/ECC82.

Any advice appreciated.  Thanks.
 

Desmond G.


Offline castelletti

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Reply #119 on: June 24, 2011, 06:36:36 PM
Ive had fun rolling a few tubes through the Crack.  I have a friend who does Gov't work who is also a guitar amp builder and he comes across some nice tubes from time to time and had a pretty modest stash (compared to Doc anyways)  I rolled the following all NOS except the Mullard which tested very strong

RCA 12AU7 black plate
RCA 12AU7 grey plate
RCA 5814a black plate
Mullard 12AU7
Tung Sol 12BH7A black plate
Amperex 12AU7 orange globe
RCA 12BH7 black plate
EH 12AU7
GE 5814A grey plate

Havent had a chance to try anything other than the Raytheon 6080WA that came with it but I did manage to pick up a NOS GEC 6080 on ebay ...I have no idea what to expect but for $20 i figured its worth a roll....

Im really liking the Tungsol 12bh7a the best right now and the RCA 5814A is just slightly behind it.

Tube rolling is really fun

Anyone tried an Amperex 7316?