Cleaning Records

[Grainger49]

A general observation about cleaning records and me.  I started in the early 70s with the first Diskwasher made.  Not serial number 000001, the first generation Diskwasher given to me by Ben VanDerKree who was their rep in Atlanta and I was selling audio gear.  I went on from there to Preeners, Parastats, RWB (record wash brush) and Dustbug from Cecil B. Watts.  Then 8-10 different cleaners that were equally inefficient at getting the stuff out of the grooves.

In about 1992 I bought a VIP 16.5 with their fluid.  It didn't clean that well but was the best so far.  The VPI 17 was available but I wanted to control the cleaning fluid application and the 17 doesn't apply the rinse water.  You HAVE to rinse the LP after cleaning.  

The 17 is not for me at all. But the 16.5 was as much automation as I needed or wanted.  And it really vacuums the LP!  

I'm using the AIVS #15 (posted before) as a complete cleaner and the Ultra Pure Rinse.  I have never gotten LPs this clean before.  It is very effective.  It isn't cheap and I'm a noted cheapskate.  But it is worth the price.

No association with them at all.

http://www.audiointelligent.com/products.htm

[Noskipallwd]

Hello Grainger,
Just noticed your post. I wanted to let you know, as per your previous recommendation I ordered the # 15 from Osage Audio. It works great and will be much cheaper and less time consuming than the 3 step AIVS system I have been using. I plan on keeping the 3 step around for the tough to clean used discs I sometimes pick up. I agree with the manual fluid application, you get a real feel for using just the right amount pretty quick. Finally finished my first Bottlehead build, a Crack, and am enjoying listening to some of my favorite vinyl with it. Hearing some things that I never knew were there before. I am thinking about building a Seduction or Eos next, depending on the money situation. What sort of Audio gear did you sell? Back in 1986, during my first year of college I got a job with a Hi-End dealer here in Colorado, we sold alot of British stuff, Linn, Rotel, Rega and so on. That's where I developed my vinyl addiction, spent all the money I earned on gear and records. That's when I bought my old tried and true Sondek LP12, wow it's hard to believe that deck is 26 years old now, how the time flies as you get older.

Cheers,
Shawn Prigmore

[Grainger49]

Ugh, I have never tried to list all the brands I sold.  It covered a time from the late 60s to the late 70s.  So, let's see, I sold Dual, Benjaman Miracord, Garrard, BSR, AR, PE, Philips, Thorens and Linn Sondek.  That is just the tables, I may have skipped a few.  

I sold Panasonic, Sony, Harmon-Kardon, Sansiu, Pioneer, Rotel, Phase Linear, AR, Yamaha, Marantz, Crown, Audio Research, Dayton Wright and SAE electronics.

Speakers included some Philips store brand, good for the price, Pioneer, AR, KLH, Infinity, SAE, Marantz, Crown Magnaplanar and Dayton Wright.  Tape decks were Sansui, Pioneer, Advent, Tandberg, Revox and Crown.

I'll have to come back to this when I remember more.

[denti alligator]

So I finally got around to cleaning a batch of records with the Spin-Clean that I bought ages ago.

Results? Pretty disappointing. I chose about 25 records ranging from new to various states of used, some pretty dirty. I did the newer, cleaner ones first, and saved the dirty ones for last. The device is easy to use, and I think I followed directions closely.

But in almost every case (including the new records) the sounds (mostly crackle) that I had hoped would be eliminated are still audible. Did I do something wrong? How could this thing get such great reviews if it doesn't produce results?

I should note that the water I used (distilled, of course) was murky when I finished, and there was some dirt deposit at the bottom. Clearly gunk was removed. But it didn't improve the sound.

The water I used was pretty cold, so maybe I ought to use room temperature water next time, but I can't imagine that making much of a difference.

[Dr. Toobz]

I bought one of those Spin-Clean things too. Didn't do much for my LP's, either, except make some of them noisier than they were before cleaning. Bizarre. I don't know if this is due to a) removing gunk that might have been covering up small scratches in the groove wall, making for more "detailed" noise, or b) the solution/soap not being removed from the grooves upon drying. Maybe it's leaving some residue? In any case, I think the sucker is about to go back on eBay.

FWIW, I also had a Nitty Gritty at one point and was also let down. Maybe the noise problems on some of our favorite platters have little to do with dust, and more to do with scratches and/or imperfections in the pressing (or quality of the vinyl used therein)? Records sure are finicky things....

[Grainger49]

Angelo has hit upon the biggest problem I saw with the Spin Clean, it doesn't rinse the LP.  Maybe the new RCA version of the Diskwasher would do better.

[Laudanum]

Im a still constantly amazed at how well that cheap Vacuum record cleaner that I bought 10 years ago still works.   If the groove is damaged, nothing will fix it.  But most of my LP's are from the late 70's and 80's.  They were never cleaned back then with anything but a discwasher or AT brush with the fluid.  That method seemed to work ok back then but after returning to Vinyl about 10 years ago, I wanted something better.  The cheapest machine I found back then was AA's Record Doctor which I think was made by Nitty Gritty for AA.  My wife got it for me for Christmas about 10 years ago, on sale at a little over $100 if memory serves.  Running them through the machine really worked wonders on the vast majority of those LP's.  I was truly impressed.  
Now, it's even more evident with headphone listening and the machine has been getting a workout lately on many LP's that I never did clean or cant remember cleaning.  

I used a Technics SL-D2 through most of my earlier vinyl years and am really pleased with how great a condition my LP collection is in.   It was a basic TT but was apparently kind to the LP's and I was careful with them back then.  When I read about people not getting results from using the record cleaning machines I just have to wonder whether it is technique, the cleaning solution or groove damage.   If that Record Doctor gave up the ghost I would probably purchase the KAB EV-1 unit that requires you use your own canister vacuum as I dont have the budget for an expensive RCM.  That unit should work as well as the one I have.  Grainger is right, you absolutely have to do a rinse.  I still have a full bottle of AA labeled "Super Cleaner II" and that's the only pre-made Ive been using for 10 years.  I doubt they still make it and I cant recall whether it was well regarded of not.  But that has worked great for me along with a distilled water rinse.  I would think that many of the popular cleaning solutions sold today would work atleast as well.  
The Spin Clean has been well recommended.  But Im not sure anything takes the place of being able to vacuum the fluid and RINSE water from the grooves.    

Im not so sure that the RCM's actually made most of my LP's sound "better" from a purely sonic perspective unless they have been gunked up.  What I am referring to is the noise (ie, "ticks" and "pops")  and getting rid of much of that makes for a better listening experience.  That's what the RCM has done so well for me to have me so pleased with it's results.   But it wont for those due to actual groove damage.  

Anyway, best vinyl accessory purchase bar none for me.  There have been very few "noisy" LP's in my collection that it hasnt improved, most of them very noticeably.

[bainjs]

I have a Spinclean and had noise problems after cleaning the records.  I cut back on the solution a little and used distilled water and the noise went away.   To help with the drying, I picked up a microfiber hand mitt from Walmart .  It works much better than the supplied cloths.

[denti alligator]

I can try doing a rinse session with only distilled water. But I still don't understand how the reviews can be so positive and I'm not getting results. It just doesn't make sense. I can understand there being maybe a little noise left over, but the records shouldn't sound the same. This may not be a vacuum cleaner, but it's been pretty well vetted.

Maybe I should send a few to you, Laudanum, if you wouldn't mind (I'll provide return shipping), to see if it's my records. But honestly, I'm trying a how slew of records (I have nearly 500), and not really noticing much.

I'll try a new batch today, with a rinse session, and throw in a few of the ones I did yesterday, too, to see what happens.

[cpaul]

I think Laudanum has a vacuum machine and not the Spin Clean, so while he (she?) might get records cleaner, it won't help you understand more about your Spin Clean, Denti. 

I too have a spin clean, and I find it does a remarkable job cleaning my records.  But much of what I get now is Goodwill specials which tend to be VERY dirty.  It makes a big difference for me on the records I'm cleaning, but I make no warranties about the experience of others.  AND...I can't say whether it does a better or worse job than a Nitty Gritty or other such vacuum RCM.

In fact, your comments make me wonder even more if I'm really missing something important in my music by only using my Spin Clean.  I do often use a zerostat and carbon brush, and maybe that helps.  Wish I had a spare $500 or so to get a really nice vacuum RCM.  Or maybe I'll try a DIY.  Anyone want to try cleaning a few records for me on a vacuum machine so I can see for myself?

Carl

[denti alligator]

I use a zero-stat and brush too, which help with static and light dust. The guy from Spin-Clean has been very helpful via email. He claims, however, that in 35 years and 75,000 units sold they've never had one return. Hard to believe.

[Dr. Toobz]

Since the basic premise of the Spin-Clean is at least logically sound, I wonder if using a better cleaning fluid in the distilled water and ditching the gauze-like cloths provided with the unit are the key to getting decent performance? What are some commonly-available LP cleaning solutions that are known to do a good job cleaning while leaving no residue?

[Grainger49]

I use a zero-stat and brush too, which help with static and light dust.  .  .  .  

In winter I have a humidifier in my listening room running 24/7 unless I'm listening.  It eliminates the need for the Zerostat that I bought when they were new and I was selling them.

I use a 3" Staticmaster before play 12 months out of the year.

http://www.amstat.com/solutions/staticmaster.html

[balancedtriode]

I have one of those spin clean units and I love it, I had to use a soft cloth (similar to a eyeglass cleaning cloth) to lightly dry then I put it in a  drying rack I made from a spindle sized horizontal post with proper sized thick washers to use as spacers between records. All in all it's a great unit although I still occasionally use my old nitty gritty unit.

[denti alligator]

So how much crackle is inherent in vinyl, no matter how clean? Sure, this depends on the pressing, but on average will one always he crackling in between tracks, no matter how clean, if the volume is turned up?

I'm wondering if my complaints about the Spin Clean come from too high expectations for real quiet vinyl.