Capacitor p0rn

[JamieMcC]

On the subject of Teflon and PIO when used for bypassing is it a case of the larger the capacitor value related at all to the amount of sonic influence imparted by the bypassing cap or is the sonic influence generally consistent due to a given ratio used?

eg

100uf-1uf bypass 
200uf-2.2uf bypass

Or are results more subjective and inconsistent?

[mcandmar]

I, very recently, saw a 0.47uF for sale.  I don't remember the voltage rating.

Never seen those before, they are indeed larger but only 200v http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Russian-Teflon-Capacitor-FT-3-0-47uF-470nF-200V-1pc-or-more-/221121984986

[Paul Joppa]

On the subject of Teflon and PIO when used for bypassing is it a case of the larger the capacitor value related at all to the amount of sonic influence imparted by the bypassing cap or is the sonic influence generally consistent due to a given ratio used?

eg

100uf-1uf bypass 
200uf-2.2uf bypass

Or are results more subjective and inconsistent?

The results are more subjective and inconsistent.

If there is an effect, it resides in more subtle details than just the capacitance.

[JamieMcC]

February 18, 2014

Capacitor Update time.

First off,

Russian Teflon K72P6, used to bypass the 2.2uf film cap which was itself used as a bypass on the last 220uf electrolytic in the Crack power supply.

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.head-fi.org%2Fe%2Fe0%2F900x900px-LL-e041cbb5_011.jpeg&hash=8d0aa5df1cb3f55139430932f9ab92a711287169)

K72P6 Impressions with just over 200hrs on the clock.

I have noticed a slight change in sonics specifically to the top end the most, it is very subtle but smoother, with what I can only describe as an easiness in its smoothness. Less grain and better resolution but without any hint of the normally associated brightness that I have experience before with such resolution. Its not a wow instantly noticeable sonic signature instead it just blends in as part of the whole picture bringing a touch of refinement. It kind of needs to be listen for specifically in order to get a handle just what has changed. But does come across in the whole.

I would like to say I have no plans to remove the Teflon as I am really loving the sound coming from my Crack at the moment it is absolutely sublime with my Beyerdynamic T1 headphones.  It is with some trepidation and no doubt a good dose of stupidity I am going to continue swapping capacitor types and positions in a vain attempt to get a grasp of some of the character the different capacitors types can impart.

Whether or not the changes might improve, on what I currently think could well be perfection for me is yet to be discovered.

 

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So my Crack cap rolling odyssey continues.

This time its the turn of a pair of Jantzen z- superior's, experimenting with them used as bypass caps for the JFX 100uf films and later in combinations with some pio film's (polypropylene film in oil, not paper) and some Hybrid mylar, paper and aluminium film in oil variants.

Back to the Jantzen who interestingly state their Z caps require no burn in.

From the Jantzen website

"Superior Cap Even the finest nuances can be heard.The sound never gets over-edged, really superb naturalness with a somewhat bright top-end. Jantzen Audio Superior Z-Caps are absolutely high-end components, delivering a natural, almost holographic sound stage. Even the finest nuances can be heard."

I am pleased to say this is very much inline with my own impressions the difference over the JFX alone is instantly quite noticeable. I am wondering if the "somewhat bright top-end" will settle down at all. And while its not " over-edged" it is walking a fine line with the T1 headphones and the accentuation of sibilance on some tracks I find just a tad to much for my personal taste. So I hope this might calm down with a little time on the clock.

Everything else is just dandy I particularly like the effect the Jantzen has with the bass it seams more expansive and deeper. There is some really nice ambiance coming through on live recordings

Following on it does suit the HD650's rather well also.

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.head-fi.org%2Fb%2Fb1%2F900x900px-LL-b1f613cc_0012.jpeg&hash=e18c4d3f4b071bcdcb764c7a43f894db7de460b9)

[serpent68]

Jamie, what value jantzen caps did you use as bypass?  I'm interested to try them out myself. I have the Mundorf MKP 100 uF.

[JamieMcC]

Jamie, what value jantzen caps did you use as bypass?  I'm interested to try them out myself. I have the Mundorf MKP 100 uF.

Hi a quick reply The Jantzen Superior Z-Cap was 0.47uF.

I will post some thoughts a little later on. The Jantzen is quiet impressive in its abilities but ultimately I found for my tastes the pairing was not quiet right in that configuration.

[Bonzo]

They are the .1uf variety, i believe those and the uber rare .22uf versions are the largest of the FT teflons.  Both are dwarfed by the 4.7uf K75 PIO Green giants, those are 4-5" long.

I dont see any markings anywhere else on them other than the section shown.

I have searched in my parts bin and I found two 0.22uf cap I bought some times ago (I forgot I have them). You're right about the diamond mark, me too cannot see it. I think you've found the bug in the theory!

Good point!

[JamieMcC]

This might interest a few here and could be a bit of a find. It is also hot off the press having been only recently listed.

Top of the line made in the US by RTI Electronics Teflon capacitors measure 10uf +/-10% at 310VDC, matching to 2-3% offered at $80 each!

Some further info that's not in the sales description, apparently they were designed for the output of a reference quality preamplifier using 6H30Pi tubes.  RTI Electronics supplies several types of this capacitor to this manufacturer and there was a mix up. These caps cost the company that ordered them well over $100 each and that was at a bulk rate.

The name of the amp manufacturer would not be disclosed to me. However it is very high probability it is Audio Research imo.

From the web

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fusr.audioasylum.com%2Fimages%2F0%2F558%2FIMG_1770.JPG&hash=27b9186892f8d66f557cf316bbd4e2804ee7161f)

Sales pic

(https://forum.bottlehead.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftctubes.com%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Fthumb%2F5216_TEFLON_CAP_800.JPG&hash=ac188514209301601e18e2d135bc3a76b3286cdc)

The seller TC Tubes and Audio Research are both located in Minnesota a short distance from each other.

http://tctubes.com/teflon-capacitor.aspx

[mcandmar]

You are correct, its one of those if you need to ask you cant afford it pre amplifiers.

[JamieMcC]

Short update on the Jantzen Superior Z

I am glad I gave the Jantzens some time to burn in they have defiantly improved. The very annoying sibilance that was initial prevalent (testing with my most prevalent recordings for it)has noticeably diminish.

The sound continued to improve across the spectrum and with it a shift in the equilibrium appearing with the balance between liquidity and authority. The Jantzen signature is more dominant and overriding.  Super Resolution and fast transients spacious stage override.

Resolution, on some uber fast Spanish guitar pieces is astonishing not only able to hear notes as normal but also the attack of the plectrum hitting the strings on each strum behind the notes quiet amazing considering the speed.

With further listening and burn this combination for me has swung to far to the clinical side with its authority and dominance at the expense of musicality.

The softness and naturalness of texture in timbre and tones which beguiled is being drowned out.  I removed the Jantzens from this combination so I could re-reference the sound. I will try them again later with some pio caps and see if it�s a more pleasing combination. The Jantzens are certainly very good caps and I think many would like what they bring to the table.

A couple of progress pics.

(https://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/1046443/width/350/height/700/flags/LL)
(https://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/1046445/width/350/height/700/flags/LL)

[mcandmar]

I was a little bored over the weekend so i tried an experiment with bypass caps on my AC quickie. The final stage of the supply is a 47uf Panasonic electrolytic which i tried bypassing with a .47uf Mundorf MKP.  I was more curious to see if i could detect/measure any difference at all, i was dubious about it as the cap feeds into two plate chokes so i wasn't expecting to find anything.

Surprising thing is i did notice a difference, i was using a pair of crocodile clips so i was able to add the cap in/out instantly while listening to music.  First thing i noticed was anytime i connected the bypass something changed ~2-3 seconds after, i assume the delay was due to the cap charging and the supply stabilizing. What the difference was i was hearing i couldn't figure out initially but after about an hour of messing about i had narrowed down the difference to dynamics, for example i found a beat track which starts with quite percussion then a loud drum beat comes in.  Using that track on a loop and connecting/disconnecting the bypass i found with the bypass the drum hits were rounder and more fleshed out.  I then tried listening to music with large dynamic shifts, some classical, some old school metal like Black Sabbath as they have lots of changes from low volume to a sudden spike when the bass guitar and drums all come in at once. By looping those sections and adding/removing the bypass i found the changes sounded weak and flat without the bypass.

I really didn't know what to make of this so with a little research i found two schools of thought, the first being low capacity caps, especially poly have a lower ESR and present a lower resistance path for high frequencies. Doesn't really explain the differences i was hearing. The other school of thought is low ESR, and especially poly caps have a faster response to current changes. In my limited understanding of plate chokes i thought that was exactly their benefit, the ability to resist current changes and smooth the supply to the valve. So is it possible that the poly cap was filling in a gap whenever there was a large shift, or is there some other more rational explanation?

I would love to hear from the BH guys on this, i'm sure you could write a book on the subject of power supply design so i would be very interested to hear what your experiences, and theory have to say on the subject.

[JamieMcC]

Interesting I was doing a similar thing with the crossovers capacitors in my speakers today. Swapping in and out a couple of types, I tried the Jantzens and what a difference they made.
 
The speakers I have been quiet satisfied with for the last 20 years now sounded weak and flat sound just as you described without the Jantzens bypass. For me the Jantzens made for a better pairing with the speakers than with the Crack .

(https://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/1053430/width/350/height/700/flags/LL)

(https://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/1053557/width/350/height/700/flags/LL)

[JamieMcC]

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Crack Cap rolling update

Cascade bypass of JFX 100uf Premium film audio coupling capacitors

Bypassed with

Russian K75-10 Hybrid Paper and Polyethylene Terephthalate in Oil (Mylar)

Bypassed with

Russian Teflon K72P6 Teflon

Beyer T1 and TS 5998 used for listening

I find myself enjoying the pairing of these capacitors they sound much better than the odd look they have shoehorned into the enclosure and held together with cable ties might suggest.

It has taken over 200hrs for the combination to settle down and a more coherent and refined sound to emerge.

With the Crack I find the K75-10 really very musical, fluid and engaging, PRaT is good its has a slightly dark flavour at lower volumes.  John L mentions  “jest and pop” in the presentation in his capacitor review ( https://www.head-fi.org/t/284863/orgy-of-capacitors-the-cap-thread) this comes through strongly and is very much akin to listening to vinyl on my Rega Planner 3, Just instant tow tapping head nodding enjoyment. Its a very engaging sound.

Here’s the thing with the K75-10 I find it very musical the downside is the roll off. The top end has lost a lot of its crispness, gone is the metallic ting on triangles and cymbals which have now turned to softer schings instead of the crisp detailed ting, the bass is also a little loose and bloomy.

So I tried adding a K72P6 Teflon bypass to the K75-10 things started to improve while still keeping much of the K75-10 character.  With over 200hrs burn in the K72P6 Teflon influence on the top end has settled down and it makes for a much more coherent and refined sound, which the K75-10 lacked on its own.

Details and resolution are vastly improved while still keeping some of the zest and pop which I found engaging.

The aspect I have found most pleasing with this combination is the vocal presentation, both male and female voices come across beautifully with nice tone and texture and enough detail in the resolution to pick up the little nuances in word formation and expression. I am wondering if this might be attributed to the Teflon capacitor or some kind of averaging out taking place.

The film and Teflon bypass capacitor combinations are throwing up some surprises and these Russian ex-military capacitors I have been experimenting with cost about the same as a cup of coffee each.

This is a combination that I could happily listen to for a long time.

(https://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/1046447/width/350/height/700/flags/LL) (https://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/1046445/width/350/height/700/flags/LL)

I will be marking this combo up just in case it goes back in.

 

[mcandmar]

Here is an interesting one, four 50uf 250v Polypropylene caps for £12.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4pcs-F-T-Polypropylene-Film-Capacitors-50uF-10-250Vdc-/161242280250?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item258ac9f13a

[JamieMcC]

Here is an interesting one, four 50uf 250v Polypropylene caps for £12.

Seamed rude not to pick a quad up for rolling. Think I might try a single 50 with a bypass and then two paralleled. See how they sound with the 600ohm T1