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Author Topic: Tube Rolling w/Crack  (Read 610617 times)

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Offline attmci

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Re: Tube Rolling w/Crack
« Reply #1605 on: May 15, 2017, 04:30:16 PM »
congrats.

i personally have those Winged C tubes as well. i find them way too dark and muddy for my taste coming from a stock Sylvania 6080wc. but i guess it depends on what headphone you're using. on a brighter can, it can tame down the brightness. but it's just way too muddy and lay back for my taste. i shelved those for the time being. you might not notice a difference, but you might try the RCA 5963 for input tube. i find those give you a slight extra layer of openess without sacrificing any tonality. i actually love them so much that i just placed another order for three more as backup.

the TS 6080 rugged tubes you got, which if are the same ones i assume have been on sale for Ebay for a while, should be the black plate 6080. if they're indeed the black plated 6080, they "should" sound the same as the stock tubes. although i cannot attest, since i don't have them. that's just the online community consensus.

the TS 6080 graphite column series, especially one with slotted graphite column are the more sought after ones. i have one of those slotted graphite ones, and it's VERY open and airy, nice low end punch and very dynamic extension without any muddiness. supposedly it's close to TS 5998 domino plates, based on online community feedback. but again, i can't confirm, since i never got my hands on a TS 5998.
No, they are close to Bendix 6080wb.

TS 5998 tubes are not that expensive.  The price of the more popular 6SN7/vt-231 has jumped more in the last couple of years.

Just found this one on e-bay. I have nothing to do or know anything about the seller.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-CTL-5998-Radio-Audio-Tube/371948712617?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

For cheap 12au7, this specific tube pairs well with a Bendix 6080wb. Just this version, 5814A, black plate, bent square getter. All other RCAs are junk.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-5814A-12AU7-ECC82-DUAL-TRIODE-TRIPLE-MICA-SQUARE-GETTER-/292093852701?hash=item4402267c1d:g:S~EAAOSwdIFXzc6N#rwid
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 04:49:34 PM by attmci »

Offline elgringo81

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Re: Tube Rolling w/Crack
« Reply #1606 on: May 17, 2017, 10:07:04 AM »
Just received a pair of RCA 12au7a Clear Tops cryotreated. I bought them of ebay.
I just want to check with you guys about few things, since Im a beginner.

1. I have noticed that the side getter is pretty dark/black at times, and the RCA logo and the date text is pretty worn off on bother of them. See attached picture, I can take more if needed.

2. But a more serious problem is that I hear a hiss in the background with both of these tubes.
I am using HD800S and DT 1770-Pro.
With no music playing, the hiss goes up as I turn up the volume. but it does not get so much louder after I have reached about 15% volume.

I have no problems with my other 12au7´s (Golden Lion and Sylvania stock). pitch black background on full volume.
The power tubes I have are 2x TS 5998 JAN and the stock Raytheon 6080.

I case it could be relevant, just want to note that I installed "TKD 2CP-2500" 2x weeks ago (before I got the Clear tops).
Voltage test was spot, and its sounds better then ever with my old tubes.
But let me know if you think I got issues.. with my crack.

Here are test results from the seller, just have to admit that I have not understood tube test results, but that knowledge I believe is just around the corner :)

TESTED IN AMPLITREX AT1000 ( www.amplitrex.com )
TUBE 1:   64/72%  EMISSION .   63/63%GM ( TRANSCONDUCTANCE )  0.6/0.2mA/V GAS.
TUBE 2:   64/60%  EMISSION .   63/63%GM ( TRANSCONDUCTANCE )  0.0/0.2mA/V GAS.
YOU CAN´T OBTAIN OTHERS SIMILAR TUBES WITH THIS HIGH TECNOLOGY PROCESS. READ MORE.........


Can I expect a RCA 12au7a clear top to have a higher noise floor in the crack or do I have bad tubes?
Or does my crack need further servicing?
Guðmundur Ásgeirsson
DIY Beginner.

Offline Doc B.

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Re: Tube Rolling w/Crack
« Reply #1607 on: May 17, 2017, 10:36:33 AM »
There has been a small spate of these kinds of posts lately. Here are some general rule of thumbs to use to make a decision about the value of rolling tubes

Rule 1 - if you put a different tube in and suddenly have noise it's most likely to be the tube, unless you broke something in the process of pushing the tube into the socket.

Rule 2 - declarations you will read of how unbelievably phenomenal a particular getter shape/color/date code/ blah blah blah that you are considering is is almost always based upon one sample, in a system different than yours.

Rule 3 - if the noise is coming only from the tube, it can't go up and down when you turn the volume control. The volume control is ahead of the tube. Noise that goes up and down with the volume control is coming from ahead of the volume control, i.e., cables or source component. Different tubes might expose more of this noise if they have more high frequency emphasis.

Rule 4 - whatever we might suggest will have little effect on what your results will be in negotiating with an ebay seller. Hence it is worthwhile to buy from sellers who take returns.

Rule 5 - most ebay sellers have no clue what those test results mean either. The tests used can approximate whether gain will be even between halves in a dual triode and give a general indication of tube health (how long the tube might have left, how much it might distort) but they have little to do with identifying if a tube will be noisy.
Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.

Offline howzz1854

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Re: Tube Rolling w/Crack
« Reply #1608 on: May 17, 2017, 09:53:13 PM »
No, they are close to Bendix 6080wb.

TS 5998 tubes are not that expensive.  The price of the more popular 6SN7/vt-231 has jumped more in the last couple of years.

Just found this one on e-bay. I have nothing to do or know anything about the seller.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-CTL-5998-Radio-Audio-Tube/371948712617?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

For cheap 12au7, this specific tube pairs well with a Bendix 6080wb. Just this version, 5814A, black plate, bent square getter. All other RCAs are junk.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-5814A-12AU7-ECC82-DUAL-TRIODE-TRIPLE-MICA-SQUARE-GETTER-/292093852701?hash=item4402267c1d:g:S~EAAOSwdIFXzc6N#rwid

thanks for the feedback. i am actually going to give that RCA 5814A a try per your suggestion. will report back and let everyone know. :)

Xonar Essence STX >> Schiit Bifrost >> Bottlehead Crack (TS 7236/RCA 5963) >> HD800s

Offline elgringo81

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Re: Tube Rolling w/Crack
« Reply #1609 on: May 18, 2017, 08:41:29 AM »
There has been a small spate of these kinds of posts lately. Here are some general rule of thumbs to use to make a decision about the value of rolling tubes

Rule 1 - if you put a different tube in and suddenly have noise it's most likely to be the tube, unless you broke something in the process of pushing the tube into the socket.

Rule 2 - declarations you will read of how unbelievably phenomenal a particular getter shape/color/date code/ blah blah blah that you are considering is is almost always based upon one sample, in a system different than yours.

Rule 3 - if the noise is coming only from the tube, it can't go up and down when you turn the volume control. The volume control is ahead of the tube. Noise that goes up and down with the volume control is coming from ahead of the volume control, i.e., cables or source component. Different tubes might expose more of this noise if they have more high frequency emphasis.

Rule 4 - whatever we might suggest will have little effect on what your results will be in negotiating with an ebay seller. Hence it is worthwhile to buy from sellers who take returns.

Rule 5 - most ebay sellers have no clue what those test results mean either. The tests used can approximate whether gain will be even between halves in a dual triode and give a general indication of tube health (how long the tube might have left, how much it might distort) but they have little to do with identifying if a tube will be noisy.

Thanks for the feedback Doc.

I will start a new Crack treat since this is getting out of the tube rolling topic.
Guðmundur Ásgeirsson
DIY Beginner.

Offline attmci

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Re: Tube Rolling w/Crack
« Reply #1610 on: May 18, 2017, 01:41:47 PM »
thanks for the feedback. i am actually going to give that RCA 5814A a try per your suggestion. will report back and let everyone know. :)
Pls don't kill me if you don't like it.  Everyone has his/her own preferences.  LOL

Seldom have I been able to recommend some tubes without reservation. 7316 is one of those.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 05:00:38 PM by attmci »

Offline howzz1854

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Re: Tube Rolling w/Crack
« Reply #1611 on: May 18, 2017, 04:43:40 PM »
Pls don't kill me if you don't like it.  Everyone has their own preferences.  LOL

i won't kill you, i'll probably just laugh it off. :P

it's not an expensive tube. my last combo purchase off the head-fi forum was a mix bag of good and bad as well. and surprisingly some of the supposed to be good tube, i ended up wasn't too impressed. the previous Winged C Russian Tube was also heavily hyped about, i also wasn't impressed, in fact i was very un-impressed. some of the recommended E80CC, TS 6080 Slotted Graphite Column, and RCA 5963 however all turned out really well. so i know it's all personal preference and mileage vary greatly. i am just glad that i am getting some good recommendations at the very least. that way at least i am not going out blindly purchasing tubes.

i also just purchased a pair of TS 7236 off ebay to give those a try as well. based on some of the previous recommendations off this forum and other forums, seems like it could be a good tube to try. got it for $45 each, not cheap, but not ridiculous either consider i've seen it much steeper. but i am sure someone else will chime in later and said they've found it cheaper lol.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 11:18:00 AM by howzz1854 »
Xonar Essence STX >> Schiit Bifrost >> Bottlehead Crack (TS 7236/RCA 5963) >> HD800s

Offline attmci

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Re: Tube Rolling w/Crack
« Reply #1612 on: May 20, 2017, 07:37:27 AM »
i won't kill you, i'll probably just laugh it off. :P

it's not an expensive tube. my last combo purchase off the head-fi forum was a mix bag of good and bad as well. and surprisingly some of the supposed to be good tube, i ended up wasn't too impressed. the previous Winged C Russian Tube was also heavily hyped about, i also wasn't impressed, in fact i was very impressed. some of the recommended E80CC, TS 6080 Slotted Graphite Column, and RCA 5963 however all turned out really well. so i know it's all personal preference and mileage vary greatly. i am just glad that i am getting some good recommendations at the very least. that way at least i am not going out blindly purchasing tubes.

i also just purchased a pair of TS 7236 off ebay to give those a try as well. based on some of the previous recommendations off this forum and other forums, seems like it could be a good tube to try. got it for $45 each, not cheap, but not ridiculous either consider i've seen it much steeper. but i am sure someone else will chime in later and said they've found it cheaper lol.

Good to know.

For new tube amp owners who are reading this thread, some suggestions.  8)

1. Ignore the recommendations from those tube sellers.
2. Ignore the extremely positive comments from someone just purchased a tube in the last couple of days.
3. Avoid impulse purchase and bidding wars.
4. Don't have to trust those "power sellers" on E--bay (i.e.  desiremexxxx). They sometimes sell weak tubes as NOS.
5. Choose the tube you like most based on your taste.
6. Good pair of driver and power tubes will help you easily pass this test:
    http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality

Enjoy!
   

« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 05:28:45 PM by attmci »

Offline howzz1854

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Re: Tube Rolling w/Crack
« Reply #1613 on: May 20, 2017, 11:22:58 AM »
Good to know.

For new tube amp owners who are reading this thread, some suggestions.  8)

1. Ignore the recommendations from those tube sellers.
2. Ignore the extremely positive comments from someone just purchased a tube in the last couple of days.
3. Avoid impulse purchase and bidding wars.

this is a prime example that somehow i have a dark feeling that if one day i somehow score a TS 5998, it'll be a let down. the Bendix 6080 Graphite slot i have, as well as the incoming TS 7236 are supposed to be close to the TS 5998, BUT with more punch and spacious. it really just makes me think that the TS 5998 is overpriced by about 200% on ebay.

i followed that last Ebay auction TS 5998 you suggested, which was priced at $51 at the time of your suggestion. yesterday it ended at $149, which is right about almost near the price of $159 from the Buy-it-now one i posted earlier on this page.
Xonar Essence STX >> Schiit Bifrost >> Bottlehead Crack (TS 7236/RCA 5963) >> HD800s

Offline BZ58

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Re: Tube Rolling w/Crack
« Reply #1614 on: May 20, 2017, 06:59:42 PM »
I recently bought a package of 4 output tubes on eBay. All but one has static. The one that doesn't have static sounds as good as the stock tube. One of them sounded very good and after a while caused static in one of the channels. Very disappointing. I knew I was taking a chance as the seller was offering them as is, no returns. They didn't cost much so I gave them a try.

As I was reading through this thread I found that Doc B. suggested a way to clean the pins. He said to chuck a q-tip into a drill after cutting the tip in half and cleaning the pins with metal polish. Then use deoxit on the pins.

I'm waiting on the deoxit that I ordered in the mail. Hope it works. Curious if anyone may have had luck revitalizing a static sounding tube with this method.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 10:47:56 PM by BZ58 »

Offline JamieMcC

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Re: Tube Rolling w/Crack
« Reply #1615 on: May 21, 2017, 08:02:18 AM »
. Curious if anyone may have had luck revitalizing a static sounding tube with this method.

Yes this has worked for me in the past even to the extent where one half of a tube was not working at all. A good clean up of the pins is sometimes all that is required.
Shoot for the moon if you miss you will still be amongst the stars!

Offline attmci

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Re: Tube Rolling w/Crack
« Reply #1616 on: May 21, 2017, 10:03:46 AM »
I recently bought a package of 4 output tubes on eBay. All but one has static. The one that doesn't have static sounds as good as the stock tube. One of them sounded very good and after a while caused static in one of the channels. Very disappointing. I knew I was taking a chance as the seller was offering them as is, no returns. They didn't cost much so I gave them a try.

As I was reading through this thread I found that Doc B. suggested a way to clean the pins. He said to chuck a q-tip into a drill after cutting the tip in half and cleaning the pins with metal polish. Then use deoxit on the pins.

I'm waiting on the deoxit that I ordered in the mail. Hope it works. Curious if anyone may have had luck revitalizing a static sounding tube with this method.

It depends.

Offline Doc B.

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Re: Tube Rolling w/Crack
« Reply #1617 on: May 21, 2017, 12:36:25 PM »
Quote
As I was reading through this thread I found that Doc B. suggested a way to clean the pins. He said to chuck a q-tip into a drill after cutting the tip in half and cleaning the pins with metal polish. Then use deoxit on the pins.

I'm waiting on the deoxit that I ordered in the mail. Hope it works. Curious if anyone may have had luck revitalizing a static sounding tube with this method.

Yes, it works quite often. It will depend of course on what is causing the static. And that is often a bad tube pin contact.
Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President For Life
Bottlehead Corp.

Offline howzz1854

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Re: Tube Rolling w/Crack
« Reply #1618 on: May 23, 2017, 03:48:53 PM »
just got the TS 7236. will reserve judgement until i can spend enough time with them. thus far, very obvious that it has a higher gain, so i have to turn the volume knob down a notch.

another thing i noticed is my god does this tube run HOT or what. anyone experience this? this is like the hottest tube i've experienced. previously the Sylvania/TS 6080, and Winged C never ran this hot.

EDIT:
ok, after about two nights 12+ hours of listening. i can say for certain that to my ears, the 7237 TS tube has more perceivable depth sound stage compare to the TS 6080, and the other 6080 tubes i had. the bass seems the same, if anything maybe slightly thicker than the TS 6080. strange, my impression sort of is the oppose compare to Nick-Seatle. he thought the TS 6080 was a bit more spacious. but to me and my system, it's exactly the opposite. the TS 6080 is pretty spacious already, but the TS 7236 just adds that extra layer of ambient air that's apparently apparent in vertical depth. one thing to note is that the TS 6080 is very sensitive to vibration and picks up any tiny vibration, and you hear it all. sometimes you have to tap on the crack's base plate to counteract the vibration to stabilize it. the 7236 on the other hand is dead silent. in terms of high and Mid, the two seem about the same. but just because i am all about the soundstage and spatial airiness, the 7236 gets my vote. i'll be sticking with the TS 7236 for a while. good thing i got a pair, now i have a backup. it's definitely a very sweet tube.

my RCA 5814A should be arriving from Holland in another week, i'll have that impression up soon.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 07:56:39 PM by howzz1854 »
Xonar Essence STX >> Schiit Bifrost >> Bottlehead Crack (TS 7236/RCA 5963) >> HD800s

Offline attmci

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Re: Tube Rolling w/Crack
« Reply #1619 on: May 26, 2017, 05:01:33 PM »
http://www.ebay.com/itm/162527576896?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

These are selling like hotcakes. I believe all will be gone in one day.